Flash Paper Cartridges

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SalemCat

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I plan to purchase either a Used Flintlock Pistol or Used Percussion Cap, Single Shot Pistol.

I'll probably settle on Percussion as I want to begin with something simple and reliable before I graduate to Flintlock.

I'm thinking of wrapping Cartridges of Flash Paper, with a Black Powder Substitute to ease cleaning.

Do I need a Lubricant ? Which one ?

Can I wrap a Ball inside the Flash Paper ? Round ? Minie ?

If using a Percussion Cap I should not need Primer ?

My goal is a Cartridge that, on the Range, I can simply ram home and shoot.
 
You could use cigarette papers or curling papers. No need for flash paper.

You will need a lube as it keeps the fouling softer and easier to clean. I prefer to make my own, known as Gatofeo's #1 lube, which is an original outside lubricated bullet lube from long ago.

By weight it's 1 part mutton tallow, 1 part paraffin wax (Gulf Wax), and 1/2 part beeswax made in a double boiler and soaked into felt wads of used as a bullet lube.

You certainly can put whatever projectile you want into it. You can also just wrap the powder much like the old powder bags used on navy guns.
 
Real black powder isn't too bad to clean. It's easier than the substitute stuff in my opinion.

Newsprint has been deemed to be wonderful stuff for cartridges with round balls. A dowel helps you form it around the ball. Lots YouTube videos on that.

You can't go wrong with patched round balls, patches lubed with Track of the Wolf Mink Oil tallow. It'll keep it simple at first and you can free from there. You'll get the hang of it quick and then you'll be wanting to come to the dark side (rock locks) lol

Good luck! And welcome to the forum! You'll get plenty of info here
 
The use of substitute powders does not ease cleaning after a shooting session. The substitute powders may leave less fouling so reloading is easier. While the fouling is reduced the corrosive nature of the fouling substitute powders is not reduced. Pyrodex fouling may be more corrosive than black powder fouling.

Don't let the reduction of fouling lead you into the belief that cleaning will be easier or can be postponed.

Use substitutes in a percussion firearm because it is the only suitable powder you have available in your area.

Now back to the use of flash paper for cartridges for use in a single shot firearm. Any paper cartridge should be torn open, the powder poured down the barrel and paper and ball loaded together on top of the powder. You don't want the paper to become a barrier in the flash channel. The crumpled paper will scrape some of the fouling from the bore and provide a wad between the powder and the ball.

When making a paper cartridge, the tip of the cartridge with the ball should be dipped in a lubricant providing a lubricated patch for the ball.
 
Salem...I use flash paper cartridges loaded with blackpowder in my percussion revolvers, and have been very satisfied with their performance.
Flash paper has a lower ignition temperature than powder and provides more positive ignition of the charge, if that's an issue.
A question that's often debated about paper cartridges is whether they leave fragments behind and whether this can lead to a subsequent charge being ignited by an ember remaining in the chamber. I've seen no posts by shooters who've actually experienced such a cook-off, but the possibility, remote as it may be, does concern some shooters.
Flash paper is a different chemical than paper. Paper is basically matted impure cellulose fiber, flash paper is high purity cellulose paper converted chemically into nitrocellulose through reaction with two concentrated acids, or a single concentrated acid and a nitrate salt. It can be more difficult to glue than conventional paper, and doesn't twist very well to seal the ball into the cartridge. It's also more expensive than ordinary paper and thus more cost effective to employ conservatively when making cartridges.
For a single shot pistol a simple cylindrical cartridge can be rolled, with one end sealed by means of a glued on flash paper disk. The charge is poured in, a lubricated felt wad placed above the charge, and the bullet glued into the mouth of the cylinder to complete the cartridge. Some care needs to be taken to insure that the tube from which the cartridge is formed is of a length proper to accept charge, wad, and projectile without wasting paper by extending it beyond the glued portion of the projectile.
Flash paper is converted completely to gas when the cartridge is fired and produces no fouling.
 
It sounds like you might be new to shooting muzzle loaders. From your question, I take it you want an enclosed case of flash paper containing powder and ball and take the whole thing, as is, and ram that down the barrel. If that is what you are after- it is called a combustible cartridge.
Now, during the Civil War, there were a handful of such ammunition used in the rifled muskets but the benefits were not that great- so YES such existed but for practical purposes let's assume no such thing was ever used.
1. Combustible Cartridges- like you want- were to be used in a percussion revolver, not a single shot
pistol. They were loaded whole, as is, the nipple on the revolver provides a straight path into the chamber- that means the entire force of the exploding cap went right into the chamber. The force ruptured the case, exposed the powder, and fired the round. It is wrong to think the paper was treated with nitrates to "burn through" into the case. The earliest rounds used tin foil and fired just fine.
The purpose of the nitrate treatment is to burn up the paper for safety reasons. If the paper doesn't burn up it could have a smoldering ember- when you put in another round it would explode right in your face. So a big concern is safety- all that paper has to burn up. In the percussion revolver the chamber is milled smooth and it is open to view- you can look into the chamber and see if any un-burnt paper remains.
To use one of these combustible cartridges in a single shot pistol creates a SAFETY NIGHTMARE. You cannot look down the barrel to see if any un-burnt paper remains. You will also have to ram the round all the way down a barrel with lands and grooves containing fouling and possible embers. From a function standpoint the single shot pistol has an indirect flash path- the cap's force goes into a drum that then must make a right angle turn into the bore. To make maters even worse, a substitute black powder is more difficult to ignite than black powder.
So, succinctly put REALLY BAD IDEA!
Here's what I suggest: get a wood dowel, glue stick, and some heavy craft paper- about equal to the paper on a paperback book cover. Cut some 1 1/2" strips and wrap around the dowel and glue. You now have a paper tube. On one end fit a paper bottom, you can leave tabs on the bottom you fold over the tube and glue. Seal the joint with clear tape. This gives you a tube to hold a powder charge. Now take a 1/2" strip of paper and make a tight fitting cap to put on the open top of the tube. Make about 20 of these tubes. You re-use these tubes and they'll last for years. Fill each tube with one charge of powder. Store them in an Altoid's tin. In the same tin carry greased patches, balls, and caps. Put in a crunched up paper napkin to keep all the items from moving around. You now have everything you need in a small compartment. This works a lot better that combustible cartridges and is safer and usually more accurate.
 
crockett said:
It sounds like you might be new to shooting muzzle loaders. From your question, I take it you want an enclosed case of flash paper containing powder and ball and take the whole thing, as is, and ram that down the barrel. If that is what you are after- it is called a combustible cartridge.
Now, during the Civil War, there were a handful of such ammunition used in the rifled muskets but the benefits were not that great- so YES such existed but for practical purposes let's assume no such thing was ever used.
1. Combustible Cartridges- like you want- were to be used in a percussion revolver, not a single shot
pistol. They were loaded whole, as is, the nipple on the revolver provides a straight path into the chamber- that means the entire force of the exploding cap went right into the chamber. The force ruptured the case, exposed the powder, and fired the round. It is wrong to think the paper was treated with nitrates to "burn through" into the case. The earliest rounds used tin foil and fired just fine.
The purpose of the nitrate treatment is to burn up the paper for safety reasons. If the paper doesn't burn up it could have a smoldering ember- when you put in another round it would explode right in your face. So a big concern is safety- all that paper has to burn up. In the percussion revolver the chamber is milled smooth and it is open to view- you can look into the chamber and see if any un-burnt paper remains.
To use one of these combustible cartridges in a single shot pistol creates a SAFETY NIGHTMARE. You cannot look down the barrel to see if any un-burnt paper remains. You will also have to ram the round all the way down a barrel with lands and grooves containing fouling and possible embers. From a function standpoint the single shot pistol has an indirect flash path- the cap's force goes into a drum that then must make a right angle turn into the bore. To make maters even worse, a substitute black powder is more difficult to ignite than black powder.
So, succinctly put REALLY BAD IDEA!
Here's what I suggest: get a wood dowel, glue stick, and some heavy craft paper- about equal to the paper on a paperback book cover. Cut some 1 1/2" strips and wrap around the dowel and glue. You now have a paper tube. On one end fit a paper bottom, you can leave tabs on the bottom you fold over the tube and glue. Seal the joint with clear tape. This gives you a tube to hold a powder charge. Now take a 1/2" strip of paper and make a tight fitting cap to put on the open top of the tube. Make about 20 of these tubes. You re-use these tubes and they'll last for years. Fill each tube with one charge of powder. Store them in an Altoid's tin. In the same tin carry greased patches, balls, and caps. Put in a crunched up paper napkin to keep all the items from moving around. You now have everything you need in a small compartment. This works a lot better that combustible cartridges and is safer and usually more accurate.

Yeah, I can see where what works great in a Revolver may not in a Single-Shot. It's a shame (for me) that my interest in these firearms lie more in the 1700's than the 1800's.

I'd still like to simplify things in the field.

If I drop loose powder down the barrel, and it somehow ignited - before I added any Wad or Ball - is that a danger ?

So maybe I drop pre-measured Loose Powder down, and then have a Flash Paper assembly of the Ball with some grease, that I ram after the loose powder has settled. Or a common Paper assembly including Ball and grease inside.

Though I am concerned that anything but Flash Paper might start a fire downrange.

Does grease need to be under the Ball, or Over ?
 
It may be useful if I explain my interest.

I do own modern, practical firearms. Mainly Mil-Surps, though. I enjoy collecting more than shooting, which in my suburban area is impossible. I have to travel an hour (or more) for any Black Powder Range.

I'd like to own some older-style Firearms just for fun, and to round out my tiny collection.

And I'd like to participate in an occasional Pirate Event.

I've not researched local groups yet, but assume that Historical Accuracy is not the primary goal of most. Rather, amusement and a perpetuation of a Pirate Myth largely originated by Robert Lewis Stevenson's "Treasure Island".

Although I'd like to fire my pistol at an Actual Range once in a while, if I'm at a Pirate Event simple noisemaking is the goal. In other words, no ball or projectile.

I know it is confusing, as acceptable methods when using no ball may be at odds with methods acceptable when shooting projectiles.
 
I'm wondering now if, these Pirate "Reenactors" use Caps ONLY.

It would be safe and easy if the report is loud enough.
 
As the others have mentioned, paper cartridges were used in Cap & Ball revolvers.
They also could be used in a single shot smooth bore pistol.

In a smooth bore, the paper really only helps to keep the ball from moving. It may help center the ball in the bore but as soon as the powder ignites the paper will all but vanish leaving the ball free to rattle down the bore towards the muzzle.

Paper cartridges are not recommended for a rifled single shot pistol though.

Rifled single shot pistols need to use a patched ball and paper cartridges don't lend themselves to having a lubricated cloth patch inside of them.

The size of the ball and patch also must be large enough to fully engage the rifling grooves and if a piece of paper were wrapped around them, it would just rip apart while the patched ball was being started.
 
Through a test of BP, Pyrodex, and Triple 7 each burned on a steel plate and left in a humid garage for 4 days showed that, indeed, Pyrodex was the most corossive. However it also showed that T7 didn't hardly leave a blemish.

That's not to say it's not corossive, but to say it is much less so than BP.
 
SalemCat- I've heard about those groups but have no idea if they are just shooting caps or small charges. If you pour a charge down a barrel, that must be from a powder measure- if you pour directly from a powder horn or flask and the charge ignites- the flame will come up and ignite (blow up) the flask/horn. Folks have had their hand blown off from that.
1. A percussion cap is a lot more powerful than the caps of a kid's cap gun.
2. That combustible load I mentioned in the Civil War Musket- those used a Minnie bullet arrangement. I should have noted that on a single shot- if you shoot a ball it needs to have a patch. The patch helps hold it in place on the powder charge.
3. Hands on help is always best- I'd check out some local black powder groups and head out to such a range to have some one show you the procedure.
 
I'm thinking of wrapping Cartridges of Flash Paper, with a Black Powder Substitute to ease cleaning.
Well, I don't have the knowledge of fifty percent of the people here about substitutes for some reasons. But I'm sure that you are going to add difficulty to the existing difficulty, this in the sens that the substitutes are needing highter temp. to ignite that the real BP and with paper between the flash cap and the charge in a rifle that system wont certainly not be perfect...
Are you sure that the Pyrodex is easier to clean that the real BP ?

This is only a simple idea of what I'm thinking about cartridges ans substitutes: where I live those products are prohibited, so I can't have a great experiency of them...

Erwan.
 
The use of substitute powders does not ease cleaning after a shooting session. The substitute powders may leave less fouling so reloading is easier. While the fouling is reduced the corrosive nature of the fouling substitute powders is not reduced. Pyrodex fouling may be more corrosive than black powder fouling.

Don't let the reduction of fouling lead you into the belief that cleaning will be easier or can be postponed.

Use substitutes in a percussion firearm because it is the only suitable powder you have available in your area.

Now back to the use of flash paper for cartridges for use in a single shot firearm. Any paper cartridge should be torn open, the powder poured down the barrel and paper and ball loaded together on top of the powder. You don't want the paper to become a barrier in the flash channel. The crumpled paper will scrape some of the fouling from the bore and provide a wad between the powder and the ball.

When making a paper cartridge, the tip of the cartridge with the ball should be dipped in a lubricant providing a lubricated patch for the ball.

From my experience, Bore Butter is awesome and keeps the fouling soft. Dawn dish soap and water and the fouling rinses right off.
 
I'm usually a silent lurker, but I will chime in here with my experiences. I have made paper cartridges for quite some time, my own take on them any way. I make the flash paper from Potassium Nitrate (Saltpetre) saturated water, which I dip coffee filters into and hang them to dry. They work EXTREMLEY well. What's more, the filters are thicker than paper and CAN be used in our large caliber singles. I make the cartridges one single unit to include the round ball and the filter does engage with the rifling. When used in percussion revolvers, the top of the paper is cut away along with the lead ring. It is an all around design. This is an image of the cartridges with varying powder loads from left to right - 40 grains, 30 grains and 25 grains.
 

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I'm usually a silent lurker, but I will chime in here with my experiences. I have made paper cartridges for quite some time, my own take on them any way. I make the flash paper from Potassium Nitrate (Saltpetre) saturated water, which I dip coffee filters into and hang them to dry. They work EXTREMLEY well. What's more, the filters are thicker than paper and CAN be used in our large caliber singles. I make the cartridges one single unit to include the round ball and the filter does engage with the rifling. When used in percussion revolvers, the top of the paper is cut away along with the lead ring. It is an all around design. This is an image of the cartridges with varying powder loads from left to right - 40 grains, 30 grains and 25 grains.
Those are nice !

I'd like to know how you made them.
 
I plan to purchase either a Used Flintlock Pistol or Used Percussion Cap, Single Shot Pistol.

I'll probably settle on Percussion as I want to begin with something simple and reliable before I graduate to Flintlock.

I'm thinking of wrapping Cartridges of Flash Paper, with a Black Powder Substitute to ease cleaning.

Do I need a Lubricant ? Which one ?

Can I wrap a Ball inside the Flash Paper ? Round ? Minie ?

If using a Percussion Cap I should not need Primer ?

My goal is a Cartridge that, on the Range, I can simply ram home and shoot.
sorry but subs need cleaning perhaps more that regular Gunpowder. There are no shortcuts cleaning is the price we pay for the fun
Respectfully
Bunk
 
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