Flat horn history

[TC]

I have searched but was not able to find much information on the following flat horn questions.
When did they come into common use?
Were they frequently scrimshawed or decorated?
When did they fall out of favor.
I have might have some ideas but would like to hear from those who know. Thanks up front?

 

[tenngun]

The ones I’ve seen photos of were plain, orange yellow in color and Central European. Not seen any scrimshaw but finely carved bases, and tooled silver tops. All the scrimshawn horns I’ve seen were American. I don’t know if Europeans went in for this or not

 

[TC]

Thanks. Do you know if the American ones existed back around the time of the American revolution?

 

[david w]

Scrimshawed flat horns can be found in Germany.

 

[oldwood]

I would imagine flat horns were made , as far back as when regular shaped powder horns were made here in America. Why wouldn't they be? Post Rev. War times saw no need for the govt . to order powder horns produced for troops , so in more relaxed times , especially in the Appalachian Mtn. regions , flat horns were in vogue. Illustrator Jim Webb's books from 1990 illustrate a number of flat , oval , and other horns from the old days. There's little cut and dried info from the old days , and only the odd evidence , that some things happened. Luckily , in the early 19th century , periodicals were in circulation. Articles written from testimony's of later relatives that knew the truth of the actual events before 1800 were collected and printed for later folks to read. These articles of actual testimonies were popular inthose times. Many were written , and were later put into books for us 21st folks to study. For the amount of actual testimonies taken and printed , one fact is evident , little is noted about the mundane things , like powder horn shapes , guns , knives , etc.. These items were mentioned, but sadly, no descriptions exist...........oldwood

 

[TC]

Thanks oldwood.

 

[French Colonial]

Very early on horn was discovered to be able to be shaped into a myriad of things. Horn combs, spoons etc.

Once this was discovered a flattened horn was an easy thing to do.

 

[Artificer]

Yes, horn was the 18th century period "plastic" and a HORNER (a well documented trade) did all kinds of things with cow horns, including making flattened horns as shown below.

HOWEVER, whether or not it was common or even seen in different geographical locations and in different time periods and by any or all economic backgrounds is quite another thing.

May I ask what period you are interested in and what geographical location and economic background?


Gus

 

[TC]

Gus, I picked up a flat horn at a flea market for 5 bucks. I have always wanted to try my hand at scrimshaw and i like the many of the sayings scribed on the horns of the revolutionary war. I wanted to be sure that scrimshaw of that time would be appropriate on a flathorn before I attempt it. I also am trying to learn everything i can about horns and horn making. I am also interested in horns and there usage at the time of the Alamo.

 

[TC]

My flea market horn

 

[tenngun]

Scrimshawed flat horns can be found in Germany.

Have you seen them? I’ve seen carved and ivory flat flask that to were carved, but I’ve not seen any scimshawn.
What sort of motifs were common?

 

[Mtman725]

TC Nice find you can't go wrong.

 

[Artificer]

Gus, I picked up a flat horn at a flea market for 5 bucks. I have always wanted to try my hand at scrimshaw and i like the many of the sayings scribed on the horns of the revolutionary war. I wanted to be sure that scrimshaw of that time would be appropriate on a flathorn before I attempt it. I also am trying to learn everything i can about horns and horn making. I am also interested in horns and there usage at the time of the Alamo.

GREAT find and an almost unbelievable price.

You are in very good luck to have picked the period (Rev War or AWI for short) when SO MANY horns were scrimshanded, because they pretty much had to do it on active military duty. This because soldiers did not stand in line all day to await their powder issue. What they did was have a few guys from each unit collect the horns, take them to the Artillery or Quartermaster to be filled, then brought them back. They detailed some soldiers in each unit to scribe/engrave the horns with at least the owners' names or marks, so they could easily and quickly return the horns. The quality of those engravings went from crude to artistic, depending on the skill level of the guys who were chosen to do it or if the owner could do it himself.

Also, this was a time when Wars were still "long periods of boredom, infrequently broken up with short periods of terror (or action). " That meant individual soldiers with the skill and desire to do it, had the time to engrave more on their horns.

Bottom line, GO FOR IT and don't worry how good or bad it comes out, because either, both or somewhere in between is completely correct.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Oh, in case you don't know about it, here is a GREAT source for the kinds of engraving that was done on horns in the period.

https://materialculture18t.wixsite.com/18thcmcrc/arms--accoutrements-accoutrements
Gus

 

[TC]

Artificer, thanks that is a fantastic website. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I appreciate it. I am amassing as many photos of horns as i can to reference the writing and drawing examples.

 

[david w]

Have you seen them? I’ve seen carved and ivory flat flask that to were carved, but I’ve not seen any scimshawn.
What sort of motifs were common?

A GERMAN COW-HORN POWDER-FLASK

 

[tenngun]

A GERMAN COW-HORN POWDER-FLASK

I’ve seen that before. But it was in a book with carved flask. At the time I thought it carved
Great find

 

[Artificer]

Artificer, thanks that is a fantastic website. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I appreciate it. I am amassing as many photos of horns as i can to reference the writing and drawing examples.

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Rudyard]

The flattened horns are as likley to get engraved / 'Scrimshawed 'as any other .They got flattened by HEAT not boiling as if sufficentley heated till they about melt( & drive the cook crazey ) As they do give of' A slight oader of melons'?, might be prudent to do this away from the house eh . A group of wooden wedges helps in this & a Book press is usefull . .The boiling idea seems the way to go but the horn will get a' memory' and is wont to revert to the original roundness , Wheras if cooked it will stay flat .The same as the flatted horn you find as butt plates or knife scales revolver grips ect & early arms such as .
.Scots horns seem to be decorated with a compass & circular forms . But later commercial offerings mostly Continental Europe with various charger tops where not offererd decorated & you don't see many with added work . Really earlier stag flasks & horns did see engraved work . Sailors ammusment 'Scrimshaw 'is the same idea cut into the horn surface then rub in some black gunk or coloured inks to get a 'polycrome' effect same idea as a tattoo . In the days before plastic all such items as butt plates knife scales .horn caps for shotguns all such as might today be plastic where made in shops with a lot of leg vise like set ups where the die was forced into hot horn trimmed to fit the die and as they cooled the next vise & the next to it would speed up the items required .. This trade was an important production of Sheffield and coupled with the hollow ware industry made the town a natural to produce powder flasks of lant horn & Ide expect any glass like items such as the stern' windows' of ships . There is or was a' pub 'called' The Pressers Arms '. Read 'Tavern' for some readers .
Regards Rudyard

 

[TC]

Thanks Rudyard. It is interesting to see how these things were “mass “ produced for export in more industrial places like England where as in parts of the colonies they may have been made, by individuals for themselves or by small shops. When a horn is made by contemporary makers is the horn scrimshawed first then aged or the opposite?