flint double strike diagnosis

[armymedic.2]

hey all, i have been watching all of the great lock advice, and i am starting to wonder if my lock doesn't suffer from some problems as well. if it does im sure it is flint angle, but bevel down does not spark nearly as well as bevel up.

I have no ignition problems, and only post because it looks like my flint is making my frizzen bounce and hit twice, robbing me of flint life.

plus.....what else would we talk about?

here are the pics, any advice is appreciated.

 

[ebiggs1]

Here is a gun I was firing last weekend and this is after 30 shots or so. You can see the flint is getting pretty short but you can also see the angle. In the second photo, you can see the frizzen and how they look on a average lock. This is an L&R lock.

 

[Rifleman1776]

it looks like my flint is making my frizzen bounce and hit twice

Not saying it can't, and hasn't, happened but that would be a new condition on me. Nebber heerd of double strike. Others will chime in if their experiences vary.
Some of my frizzens look like that. But it is because of use of shorter/longer flints, bevel up/down, etc.
Striving for consistency is important. Not always easy to achieve but important to try for.

 

[mr.flintlock]

It could be possible that your frizzen is rebounding back against the flint before the cock comes to a stop.

 

[Billnpatti]

I'm with rifleman1776 on this one. I have never heard of a double strike on a frizzen. Like he said, it is most likely due to changes in your flint. When you change from bevil up to bevil down or when you use a slightly longer or shorter flint, it will strike the frizzen at a different place. You might also try putting a dab of lubricant on your frizzen spring where the frizzen contacts the spring. It could give you a bit smoother movement of the frizzen.

Too bad you don't live next door to Larry Pletcher. He could take high speed photos of your lock in action and tell you exactly what is going on.

 

[armymedic.2]

Aha. It appears im misreading the situation.

Compared to the other photos here it seems i may want to angle my flint quite a bit more! That a great photo thanks!

I figured i was around sixty degrees already but that one looks way more angled than mine

 

[Stubert]

I think he means that the frizzen is rebounding after the shot and striking the top of his flint damaging it.

 

[Zonie]

If the lock is sparking nicely and is not eating up your flint too fast be happy and don't frinkel with the lock.

The double lines are most likely from firing the gun with the flint installed bevel up and then bevel down.

All of the scrape marks are a good thing.

For reasons that escape me, some of our members seem to think the frizzen shouldn't get scraped or scratched.
Of course this isn't true. Scrapes and scratches are a good thing if we're talking about a frizzen.

 

[armymedic.2]

Ok. Then i have no further inquiry.

I knew the sctratches were good. I was not sure about the strike point gouges.

Sparks well and never fails me though i i will leave it alone!

 

[hobowonkanobe]

when I first went out with my rifle, I did what everyone told me to do, wrap the flint in leather to seat it in the cock.
Turns out, this can give it some bounce, robbing you of a clean strike and not always sparking. An old coot at the range suggested wrapping it in lead instead as it has no give in it compaired to leather.
My question on this is, is there some kinds of leather ( cldnt help noticing most o y'all do this) or more to the point, are there some kinds of leather that are just not as good for this. I can't be hammerin one of my round balls flat every time I wanna shoot.

 

[armymedic.2]

I always hated pounding lead. Why i swapped to leather in the first place. I use scraps of buckskin. Just thick enough to provide grip, but no cushion. My two locks spark very well with this method.

 

[MJMarkey]

Don't use lead in your flint jaws, use leather only when using a Chambers lock using lead voids the warranty on Chambers locks.

If you're at all concerned about frizzen bounce back try extending the top of the leather beyond the end of the top jaw, if it is getting frizzen bounce the frizzen will mark the leather and the leather will pad the flint and prevent flint damage.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

It looks like chatter to me, what I did with mine was to releive some of the feather spring tension so that the frizzen has less initial resistance upon striking open.

Your springs are not balanced.

I do get a bit more flint life this way but an individual needs to take care to not remove to much material as this will allow for excessive rebound of the frizzen and thus create a whole new set of problems.

Where is Paul V. when you need him, this was a subject he was adamant about.
RIP

 

[armymedic.2]

Those are both really good ideas. I will try them both. I do feel like it is chatter now and not bounce.

Soon as critter seasons are over ill start messing with the spri.g. ill try the leather overhang asap and see what happens

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Regarding frizzens, I'll offer a few thoughts. In the 80+ slow motion videos we've done, I have not seen any flints bounce on the way down a frizzen. I can't say it never happens - but it hasn't in any of the videos we've done.

As far as chatter goes, my gut says that how rough the frizzen surface is may contribute to some chatter. This doesn't show in slow motion video, but would be much harder to detect.

The marks you see on the frizzen are IMHO caused by the various lengths, sizes, bevels, etc of the flints that have been installed. My test-bed Siler was chewed up badly by thousands of trials with every type and size of flint, bevel up, bevel down, etc. Most tests sets were 20 trials each. Unless you were using sawed agates I doubt you could get each flint to strike exactly the same place if you tried.

As far as frizzens rebounding after the flint strike is over, all locks do this to varying degrees. Most frizzens do not return hard enough to harm the flint, but a few do. in my videos, a typical lock will rebound through one or two cycles. Unless the flint is struck rebounding is harmless.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[M. De Land]

The thing about lead is that it has no memory and once squashed out it stays that way with little spring back. I would guess it would require continual tightening on a cock jaw after a bit of use. Leather on the other hand has some elasticity and would maintain a better grip on the flint, I would think.
I've tried both and the leather works better for me at least.
On the other hand leather can absorb moisture around the flint and the lead won't. MD

 

[armymedic.2]

Md i like leather too

Pletch ill call ur word gold on this subject given the trials i watched you do in the past.

I dont think it was damaging the flint necessarily with a strike back. The gouges had me wondering but im sure its different flints. Ill shoot it with a few different angled and some extra leather and see if there are any improvements.

Im tickled at my ignition........just trying to get better use out of the flints and frizzen. I figure about 30 shots or so is my average on a flint. Its a large siler

 

[MSW]

Regarding frizzens, I'll offer a few thoughts. In the 80+ slow motion videos we've done, I have not seen any flints bounce on the way down a frizzen. I can't say it never happens - but it hasn't in any of the videos we've done.

As far as chatter goes, my gut says that how rough the frizzen surface is may contribute to some chatter. This doesn't show in slow motion video, but would be much harder to detect.

The marks you see on the frizzen are IMHO caused by the various lengths, sizes, bevels, etc of the flints that have been installed. My test-bed Siler was chewed up badly by thousands of trials with every type and size of flint, bevel up, bevel down, etc. Most tests sets were 20 trials each. Unless you were using sawed agates I doubt you could get each flint to strike exactly the same place if you tried.

As far as frizzens rebounding after the flint strike is over, all locks do this to varying degrees. Most frizzens do not return hard enough to harm the flint, but a few do. in my videos, a typical lock will rebound through one or two cycles. Unless the flint is struck rebounding is harmless.
Regards,
Pletch

Pletch is the real deal ... his slow motion videos show (if i remember correcty) that lead doesn't produce substantially more sparks.

i would be hesitant to tinker with the frizzen spring unless i had a replacement on hand, in case i messed it up.

just one guy's opinion - free and doubtless worth the price.

 

[armymedic.2]

:thumbsup:

That why i was saying "after critter seasons". I have other flinters but dont wanna be without my hammer when i need it!

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

You must go with your gut feeling.

I am only relating my experience with my lock.

When I first started shooting my L&R lock it developed a pair of horizontal gouges in the face of the frizzen, by adjusting the cam over point as well as the spring tension on the feather spring these gouges are now gone, and I have an improved flint life.

Changing the orientation of the flint (bevel up/down) accomplished only to move the chatter marks (gouges) further down the face of the frizzen, you will be able to experiment this on your own.

I am a bevel down kinda guy.

Good luck in whatever you do though.