Flint/frizzen relationship?

[DuncNZ]

No need to change the flint, it just shows the lock is working right.

The thing is , it didn't used to do it , it just started , none of my other flinters do it .

 

[TreeMan]

I had the same issue with a traditions lock in a kit i built two years ago. I compressed the frizzen spring a little with a couple pieces of leather and a c-clamp for about an hour. It weakened the spring enough that the lock worked fine afterwards. My frizzen spring was ridiculously heavy. It’s still working well to this day.

 

[Jake2454]

I had the same issue with a traditions lock in a kit i built two years ago. I compressed the frizzen spring a little with a couple pieces of leather and a c-clamp for about an hour. It weakened the spring enough that the lock worked fine afterwards. My frizzen spring was ridiculously heavy. It’s still working well to this day.

the frizzen springs are very very heavy which leads to premature flint and frizzen wear. for the time it takes to fix it and the money saved it is well worth the effort.

 

[EC121]

2I mount the spring in metal jig then apply heatsink paste on the bend and bottom arm of the spring and heat the spring arm up to a dark red in a dark room. Then bend the spring a little and let it cool. It won't hurt the temper that way.

 

[Jake2454]

I had the same issue with a traditions lock in a kit i built two years ago. I compressed the frizzen spring a little with a couple pieces of leather and a c-clamp for about an hour. It weakened the spring enough that the lock worked fine afterwards. My frizzen spring was ridiculously heavy. It’s still working well to this day.

Treemans point is a good one. while some of our rifles may not be top of the line custom rifles, with a bit of knowledge and and effort even production guns can function reliably and well for a long time and it doesnt mean that you have to spend alot of money swapping out major components. once you get your rifle functioning enjoy it and take stock of all that you have learned in a short time from the good people here who have helped you.

 

[BadDaditood]

2I mount the spring in metal jig then apply heatsink paste on the bend and bottom arm of the spring and heat the spring arm up to a dark red in a dark room. Then bend the spring a little and let it cool. It won't hurt the temper that way.

If you heat to red then slow cool you’ve annealed the steel, removing all temper and making it soft and malleable.
Red can be 1100 to 1500 degrees, Well over the 450 to 800 for tempering.
If you need to remove a lot of material from a spring, first anneal it. Then remove material by filing lengthwise and polishing out all scratches. (Springs tend to break at crosswise scratch marks )
Polish then harden by heating to red/orange hot and quenching.
At this point the steel is extremely hard (a file will skate across it) but very brittle.
Now you temper it by heating it to 450 (800 for springs) degrees or so. With a torch you carefully draw it to a straw color, bake in oven for an hour or just toss it in your lead pot next session.

 

[FishDFly]

The above should be saved as a sticky.

 

[rocullen]

If you heat to red then slow cool you’ve annealed the steel, removing all temper and making it soft and malleable.
Red can be 1100 to 1500 degrees, Well over the 450 to 800 for tempering.
If you need to remove a lot of material from a spring, first anneal it. Then remove material by filing lengthwise and polishing out all scratches. (Springs tend to break at crosswise scratch marks )
Polish then harden by heating to red/orange hot and quenching.
At this point the steel is extremely hard (a file will skate across it) but very brittle.
Now you temper it by heating it to 450 (800 for springs) degrees or so. With a torch you carefully draw it to a straw color, bake in oven for an hour or just toss it in your lead pot next session.
View attachment 116504

The above should be saved as a sticky.

Agree on the sticky, but I need clarification. 450(800) springs. I thought this was a spring.

 

[EC121]

You better tell Jim Chambers about that, because one of his lock assemblers is the one that told me how to do it. I bent a mainspring with that procedure then cycled it 100 times without a problem. The section of the spring in the heat sink paste never gets hot.

 

[BadDaditood]

You better tell Jim Chambers about that, because one of his lock assemblers is the one that told me how to do it. I bent a mainspring with that procedure then cycled it 100 times without a problem. The section of the spring in the heat sink paste never gets hot.

Apparently the part of the spring you heated didn’t need to be tempered?
Heat sink paste is a real neat trick, I gotta get me some!

 

[BadDaditood]

Agree on the sticky, but I need clarification. 450(800) springs. I thought this was a spring.

I don’t work for Chambers but I’ve heard springs can be tempered in your casting pot, mine reads between 650 and 800.
Guys who know what they’re doing (me excluded) use a torch to draw it back to a straw color, which is 450 ish.
Most springs I see are pert near black which is 570 plus.

 

[rocullen]

Yes, but I thought(dangerous) 450 was for knives and working parts.
Under the impression that springs took different tempering, kinda like cold chisels take a different color.

I'm think he meant 450°C or 800°F which it'll start turning dark grey from greyish blue then he throws straw in there.

 

[deerstalkert]

heating to red and cooling slowly anneals(makes soft and pliable) and drillable.
allows you to form your material.
heating to bright red and quenching in oil hardens the steel. like glass. i broke two springs today just by applying small pressure. Snap! @#^&%#!!!! 2 of them!
once the spring is hardened it has to be drawn to make it springy without breaking.
heat to 600 or so and let cool. i do this in my lead pot. 10-15 seconds on a small thin spring is sufficient. the spring will be blue when taken out.
polish between the phases so you can see the color changes of the piece.

or order a new one from totw!

 

[necchi]

With a torch you carefully draw it to a straw color,

Do you have any idea what it takes for an average person to "see",, "straw color"?
An accomplished man at the forge that I know, that was schooled by a master at the forge, once told me,, that he didn't "see" straw color until it was shown to him 2yrs after he started heating metal.
A "color graph" shown as a pic on line is in no way even a possible comparison given the parameters of personal view settings of each viewing device

aka; My 'phone" shows a distinct different color of your chart than my PC monitor. and none of the colors are listed as "straw",,

 

[EC121]

Apparently the part of the spring you heated didn’t need to be tempered?
Heat sink paste is a real neat trick, I gotta get me some!

The heat sink paste is used by A/C repairmen and others who apply heat up close to things they don't want to melt. It's called "Cool Blue Ceat Sink Paste".
With the spring secured to the edge of a metal plate jig and with paste all over most of the top arm and vee of the spring I just bent the outer half of the bottom spring arm for a little more tension. I warmed it up and used a screwdriver in the vee of the spring to pry it open a tad. Doesn't take much. The paste quickly sucks the heat out and preserves the temper. Any more than that would be more like forging instead of bending.
FYI: Never try this on something without a replacement part available to order if it goes bad.

 

[BadDaditood]

Do you have any idea what it takes for an average person to "see",, "straw color"?
An accomplished man at the forge that I know, that was schooled by a master at the forge, once told me,, that he didn't "see" straw color until it was shown to him 2yrs after he started heating metal.
A "color graph" shown as a pic on line is in no way even a possible comparison given the parameters of personal view settings of each viewing device

aka; My 'phone" shows a distinct different color of your chart than my PC monitor. and none of the colors are listed as "straw",,

Took me a couple years to see colors too but apparently all the books I’ve collected are wrong because this is the “Internets” where you can start a fight saying “water is wet”
Duke it out amongst yourselves, I’ve got books to burn

 

[FishDFly]

Chart would do no good for me as I am color blind.

They show me the color chart and ask me what numbers do you see. None. Look on their face is priceless.

 

[Rod Man]

There is a crazy bunch of info here. Didn’t read everything but did any body ask him if his lock bolts were too tight? I’ve seen that happen before where the frizzen was rubbing the side of the barrel. Just a thought.

RM