Flint issues

[Rifleman1776]

Also I have found that many guns that "Eat" flints have too heavy of a frizzen spring. :idunno:

Dunno 'bout that. :hmm: A Brown Bess has heavy springs but mine would not use up flints any more than a rifle. Methinks the solution is prevention. Meaning to go with good locks to start with. I know this is not always possible when buying a factory made rifle so changing the angle is probably the best approach. And, BTW, I used German cut/sawn flints for decades. They lasted so long I would forget when I installed them. That rifle had a properly made Siler lock. I wouldn't risk them in an El Cheapo lock considering their price.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Replacing that spring would probably be my last resort effort. It really doesn't take much spring tension to keep it bouncing back at the flint. I lost my frizzen spring in the tall grass the one time I removed it for an extreme cleaning that it really didn't need. Got a new one from L&R and when I talked to them before sending in the lock (they installed it free for just the price of the replacement spring) we spoke about frizzen spring tension for a bit. It really takes very little tension to keep it from rebounding back on the flint.

My guess (again) would be that you have the flint hitting the frizzen at too abrupt an angle. That will smash the edge and you will get only a few shots out of it before it stops sparking and you start knapping at it.

Of course if you hit it at too high of an angle it will knock junks off the bottom of the flint. You want to set that flint up so it strikes at a 55° to 60° angle. Much less than 55° starts smashing flint edges. Get at much above 60° and it starts knocking chunks off the bottom of the flint. Check out the picture below to see what I'm talking about:

Also, don't expect the flint to hit the top of the frizzen when you have it set to strike at that angle. Anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the way down from the top is fine.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Walks with fire]

Bend the hammer or make an angled shim to get the angle right. Heating a hammer enough to bend it seems like a bad idea. Shims could be glued or soldered in place to a top or bottom jaw.

I checked the angle of my Lyman coil spring lock on a comparator and it was 58 degrees. Use thin leather to reduce bounce. I use a lot of agate in my flint locks and shape a new edge every range session with a diamond wheel. Some have been used for 400-500 shots.

 

[rdstrain49]

I've been shooting flintlocks a very, very short time. After reading a number of these topics I made an angle gauge, (55 & 60 degrees) that I use to check the angle of the flint until my eye gets trained. Now I always get good spark and the flint is very nearly self knapping. I've shot about 30 rounds with the current flint and have not needed to sharpen it yet. Bottom line, the angle is a huge deal.

 

[sproulman]

GREAT INFO..A member here that died showed me how to use a PROTRACTOR ..I said what is that..It is what is shown here.You can get them at stationary stores etc ... :hatsoff:

 

[Rifleman1776]

..A member here that died showed me how to use a PROTRACTOR ..I said what is that..It is what is shown here.You can get them at stationary stores etc ...

Back in the day every grade school student had one.

 

[rdstrain49]

I still use one, mine is currently on my desk.

 

[Col. Batguano]

inverted, mounted on the end of a stick, and inserted in the bore, with a weighted string on the end it becomes a Gunner's Quadrant. That's what the artillery boys use to estimate elevation for long range shooting.

 

[Zonie]

Sorry but I don't agree with the "Point of flint strikes frizzen at 60° angle" line the protractor shows.

IMO, the 60° angle should be measured from the vertical, 90° line, not the horizontal line.

If the point of the flint struck the frizzen at the angle indicated on the protractor it would most likely break the edge of the flint.

IMO, the angle the flint strikes the frizzen should be like this drawing depicts:




The 32.5 degree angle can be 30 degrees. That's just the way it turned out when I drew it.
Others can feel free to disagree with me and if you do, let us know. :redface:

 

[rdstrain49]

Nuts,, now I'm confused again. :cursing:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hi Zonie,

That's the angle I've set my flint since Paul Vallandigham (sp?) mentioned it back in about 2004. Made a monster of a difference for me. I typically get 100+ shots out of a flint and might have to knap it once during that time. Usually I just have to keep cleaning off the underside of the flint because it is self-knapping at that angle and powder fouling on the underside of the flint is more of a problem than anything else.

If you go beyond that 60° angle, it will knock large concentric chunks from the bottom of the flint. If that happens to you, your angle is too steep - make it wider (lower angle)

No if's, ands, buts or maybe's! I've been doing it that way since Paul first mentioned it here on the forum and it made all the difference in the world. And I did a lot of firing using that geometry because I was doing a lot of reenactments where I would use 30 to 40 cartridges for each battle reenactment. We typically had two afternoon scripted public battles and one tactical battle (unscripted) on the morning of one of the two days. Not that much reenactment here in Washington but lots when I lived both in Vermont and Virginia.

I think I see a point of confusion that was pointed out to me by one of our forum members, rdstrain49. The point of contact is where the zero line actually is. The zero line would be a horizontal line that extends horizontally parallel to the pan from that point of contact.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[azmntman]

:surrender: ok now Im confused (more). 55-60 degrees off the BARREL or the FRIZZN which likley sits at about a 10 degree angle anyway?? :youcrazy:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Slowly lower the flint until it touches the frizzen. Watch the arc that it describes in doing so. If the tip of the flint hits the frizzen at that 55°-60° angle you are golden.

Look at Zonies drawing. The fop of his flint in that picture is at about a 55° angle. If his flint hits the frizzen while describing an arc that follows that angle - SUCCESS!. If it hits the frizzen following an arc that is pictured following the bottom of the flint - smashed edge.

So look at the tip of the flint and follow its arc down to the frizzen as you lower it to be sure you are measuring the correct angle. Once you've done it a bit, it's not that hard to see. The tip needs to be slicing down the face of the frizzen, not colliding into it.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[Col. Batguano]

We'll keep it simple. Try it like you have it set up now. If it works, that's all you need to know. If it doesn't, flip your flint. If that doesn't work, shim it or move it backwards or forwards in the jaws. Once you find something that works, stop fiddling with it.

 

[M. De Land]

You can also learn to pressure flake the strike edge there by lowering or raising it in relation to the flint body. This can in effect change the impact angle against the frizzen a bit possibly negating the need to change the cock striking radius or flipping the flint.
It gives you the ability to more finely tune the impact angle than does flipping the flint or changing the cock strike angle.

 

[Zonie]

The angle shown in my sketch represents top surface of the lower jaw of the cock. The one that positions the flint when the flint is clamped in place.

The "flint" in the picture is drawn in the "bevel up" position but it just as easily could have been drawn with the flint "bevel down".

Most flintlocks work fine with the flint clamped in with its bevel "up" but some locks seem to work better with the bevel down. The only way to know is to try both positions of the flint.

The important thing is the angle of the long, straight side of the flint which meets the beveled side, creating a razor sharp edge.

This surface that leads to the sharp edge should be about 30° from the horizontal line created by the flat areas at the top of the pan when the flint is clamped bevel up or bevel down.

 

[Pete G]

FWIW:I've been told that the English pattern locks are designed to use bevel down.

 

[hanshi]

:hmm: Humf,

 

[rdstrain49]

Methinks "pa-shaw" would be more appropriate.

 

[sproulman]

..A member here that died showed me how to use a PROTRACTOR ..I said what is that..It is what is shown here.You can get them at stationary stores etc ...

Back in the day every grade school student had one.

I never studied I hunted everyday after school but I remember one in school..Refused to use it or study I would jump out window grab my gun and go hunting..