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Flint Orientation

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roundball said:
:hmm: That's a pretty bold across the board statement to make about all the Flintlock assemblies in existence given all the different physical sizes, dimensions, etc, not to mention you only have a partial list.


:confused:

Probably is but its a fact.
I said if it works best with the flint upside down I fix it. A good lock generally will put the flint too low if the flint is upside down. If you have a lock with a mis-matched cock to frizzen relationship you might have to put the flint in upside down to make it work. If the cock's jaw angle is wrong it can have the flint meeting the frizzen at the wrong angle and it is possible that putting the flint in upside down will help this.
I would fix the the lock before I put it in the wood.
I didn't say anyone HAD to just that I would.
Physical size has little to do with the proper geometry.
A big lock that has bad angles and such will work no better than a small one with the same problem.
Dan
 
Deadeye said:
It seems that although most everyone had an opinion on bevel up or down, no one seems to
want to commit as to what bevel up or down means.
Is there anyone here that knows,if so, please tell me. No guesses, the real answer, thanks,
Deadeye
Flints also have a flat side...it's the opposite side from that...called the beveled side (has a slope, an angle, ie: a bevel)

Scroll down this page and see the diagram:[url] http://gunsmithsociety.com//content/view/47/67[/url]/
 
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Thanks to all, after all these yrs. of saying "hump on top or bottom" or if it doesn't work on one side turn it over, I assumed that was the way it was but had heard some shooters refer to it the other way. thanks again for setting me straight.
Roundball, thanks for that websight.
Deadeye
 
roundball said:
Deadeye said:
It seems that although most everyone had an opinion on bevel up or down, no one seems to
want to commit as to what bevel up or down means.
Is there anyone here that knows,if so, please tell me. No guesses, the real answer, thanks,
Deadeye
Flints also have a flat side...it's the opposite side from that...called the beveled side (has a slope, an angle, ie: a bevel)

Scroll down this page and see the diagram:[url] http://gunsmithsociety.com//content/view/47/67/[/quote][/url]

The Pedersoli lock pictured is poster child for how not to make a good flintlock. But I have some pics of an unfired 1840 Leman/Conestoga RW rifle with as bad or worse lock so cheap guns have not changed much I guess.
He should have fixed the cock.

Dan
 
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Wow Roundball! What a virtual fount of knowledge!

I'm new and sadly enough don't own a flintlock yet, but I want to learn before jump in.

I'm Finding a lot of info from a number of you, but this answered a very basic question for me.
 
See my article:
[url] www.chuckhawks.com/flintlocks.htm[/url] concerning the tuning and shooting of flintlocks.

---------------------------------------------------
Paul,

Very good article, although I'm not sure if there isn't conflicting info from the article Roundball referenced.

Thanks, I'm learning. :hatsoff:

Marc
 
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Marc A said:
See my article:
[url] www.chuckhawks.com/flintlocks.htm[/url] concerning the tuning and shooting of flintlocks.

---------------------------------------------------
Paul,

Very good article, although I'm not sure if there isn't conflicting info from the article Roundball referenced.

Thanks, I'm learning. :hatsoff:
Marc
Marc, all this info has been out on the Internet by established sources for years and years now as Flintlocks are not new of course...much of it now is simply regurgitation of established information
 
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My article is now found here on the forum, under member resources, under " Articles". I do discuss design fundamentals, without naming specific locks or makers. I cannot disagree with Dan's remarks, based on similar observations I have made of my own, however.

My article does detail HOw to set the flint in the lock, and goes on to demonstrate the the advantage in having the flint strike the frizzen at the proper angle is that it thereafter knapps itself. I also give the suggested spring tension for the frizzen spring, and the mainspring. to stop Crushing the Valuable Flints, and tell shooter how to go about testing those springs themselves.

That information has not been previously made available to shooters in the literature. Since 2004, when my article was first published, I have heard from many flintlock shooters who have read my article, fixed their own locks, and have seen the difference by then using my recommendations on mounting the flint in LEAD( don't have another stroke, Roundball!) priming, and loading FFg powder in the barrel loosely to get the best performance. They have been kind enough to let me know that what I recommend works, and tell me about their match wins, and successful hunts. I had a very good teacher who was kind enough to teach me how a lock should work, and WHY. What my article attempts to do, which I do not see in other articles is to give readers the WHY's. What you do to make use of this knowledge is up to the reader.

I am very happy to see that T/C, has made substantial improvements to its flintlock design, and that all the T/C shooter that have used the new lock love it. It shows that at least one gun company is listening to shooters, and is willing to make its product better. Years ago, when T/C was making its fame with its first single shot pistol, the Contender, a friend of mine found that if the pivot point for the opening lever was move forward a small amount, the action worked better. He call Mr. Center, had a long talk with him, sent his gun with the modification up to the factor for them to see and try, and, as a result, the factory changed the location of the pivot screw hole in the frame per my friend's suggestion, and thereafter produced a better pistol. I don't remember the details, other than that he still had his original contender with the extra( now unused) hole in the frame where the factor pivot pin used to be located, when we went shooting one day. It was just nice to hear that a company and its formost gun designer was willing to listen to suggestions from its customers, and respond to better ideas with improved designs. Of course, it would have been nice if T/C had given my friend credit for the suggested change. Perhaps that is asking too much of fragile egos. :hmm:
 
Thanks Roundball, like Ive previously stated, I'm learning about this muzzleloader stuff.

I have lots of questions and I keep reading the forum topics.



"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."
Patrick Henry
 
I am no expert. I have a Traditions's Deerhunter with the small Tradition's lock. It requires the flint to be put in bevel down to hit above the middle of the frizzen. With the flint in bevel up, it makes about half the sparks it does bevel down.
Take your gun into a dark room with a sharp flint and watch the lock fire from the side. In my lock, not only does bevel down double the sparks. It produces hot dancing sparks the other way doesn't. It also focuses the sparks into the pan properly. Bevel up and they go everywhere. Bevel down and 90 percent hit the pan.
On Paul's advice, I also tested the leather versus lead wrap in my lock in a dark room. Lead wrap bevel down, my cheap lock sparks like a good lock. It still eats flints tho. :(
 
I have some flints with too much of a hump on the top surface, behind the bevel to allow them to be clamped well in the jaws. Awhile back I read a post about using some type of a grinding wheel on a Dremel tool to flaten out this hump. Does anyone know what kind of grinding wheel would work well for this?
Thanks in advance.
 
powder jack said:
I have some flints with too much of a hump on the top surface, behind the bevel to allow them to be clamped well in the jaws. Awhile back I read a post about using some type of a grinding wheel on a Dremel tool to flaten out this hump. Does anyone know what kind of grinding wheel would work well for this?
Thanks in advance.
Dremel Diamond Cutter (grinding) wheel

Found them at[url] WidgetSupply.com[/url]...here's a photo & info.
They are in the category of burrs & cutters...not 'grinders' as I had always been searching.
[url] http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/dremel-diamond-wheel-1/BDL34[/url]
 
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Listen to Roundball on this, Powderjack. He has as much experience as anyone on the forum. In the past we have discussed using " Mizzy wheels" to grind off the humps. Recently, these Diamond Cutters have gotten the nod, because they are about as cheap, but seem to last a lot longer. You may not be able to find these at your local hardware store or hobby shop, so plan to have to order them over the phone, or by the internet.

Wear a mask to cover your mouth and nose when grinding these flints( and eye protection). The silica that composes the flint is bad for your lungs. When you finish doing a bunch of flints with humps. wash off the flints, and sweep or vacuum up the dust. Then take a good shower, and put your clothes in the wash to get all the dust off you, too. That is how nasty the silica dust is.
 
I still use the Mizzy Wheels from Jewelry Supply. I bought a dozen and, by gum, I'm going to use them up. Still on my first one and I've given a couple away.

Then I'll move on to diamond wheels.

I made a little wood jig that I clamp in my vice with a dovetailed slot to hold the flints as I work the humps out.
 
Stumpy: That sounds like a great idea. If you can, would you post a picture of your flint jig? It must be a lot better than trying to hold the flint between thumb and forefinger, or with padded pliers.
 
Just be SURE to buy those diamond wheels a dozen at a time .. cuz' if like me ... you'll end up giving about half of them away :shocked2: to friends! Kuddos to Roundball for this tip BTW, it worls slick!

I grind them outside in a little wind, to keep the dust out of my lungs and I use a cordless Dremel too. Fast and easy ... even when holding in my fingers.

Oh yeah, I also bought the 'grinding lube' that widget suplly sells for the diamond tools and I notice the wheel cuts faster and doesn't load up, if at all.
 
I don't know who first mentioned Mizzy wheels here, as it seemed to be common knowledge when I first joined. And, I didn't remember exactly who mentioned the diamond wheels. If it was Roundball, then I agree. He is owed a huge " THANK YOU " by all us flint shooters. I know I sent an email to my brother in Florida telling him about them as soon as the idea was raised. I have looked at several well-supplied hardware stores here for them, but can't find a local dealer. I have to check with two " hobbie" shops, yet, before throwing in the towel and ordering them by mail. Ordering them by the dozen just makes sense, ad the shipping charges are substantial compared to the retail price of each wheel. And, you will find other shooters who will gladly pay you back your investment to get one of them to do their own flints.
 
Stumpkiller said:
I made a little wood jig that I clamp in my vice with a dovetailed slot to hold the flints as I work the humps out.
You must have lots of free time :grin: ...I just gently pinch the flint in the vice itself.
 
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