Joel/Calgary
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What are your loads, wads, etc.? I'm still trying to work up some I'm comfortable with in my 16ga.makeumsmoke said:
Thanks,
Joel
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Thanks,
Joel
Joel/Calgary
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Baron, may I ask what loads you are using in your 11 and 20?
Thanks,
Joel
Thanks,
Joel
Joel..this is my load for 12 ga...95 FFF-Graf's BP...1/8 th in. hard over powder card edges lubed next depending on which shot cup is used(a must while shooting steel shot)another lubed felt 1/8 card or 2 the shot cup ..1 1/2 oz. weighed #3 steel or #2 heavi-shot..one thin over shot card.I slit the wads and had to shorten the white(Multi-metal wad)In the picture below -the pink shot cup is from BPI-Ballistic products-(BP12)the white cup is also from BPI-its called..Multi-metal unslit version 12 ga. 3 1/2 inch. Not sure if BPI has 16 ga. wads they seem to have a good selection and very good service.
Joel..I just went to the BPI web site and they have 16 ga. steel shot wads..
I found using steel or Heavi-shot the stiff wads held the pattern tighter -I'm using a IMP. and Mod choke..with success.
Joel..I just went to the BPI web site and they have 16 ga. steel shot wads..
I found using steel or Heavi-shot the stiff wads held the pattern tighter -I'm using a IMP. and Mod choke..with success.
The Baron
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makeumsmoke... thanks for sharing the load info, complete with pics. :thumbsup:
Joel... for my 11ga. I was loading 80gr. 2F, 1 overpowder card and then a factory shot cup and approx. 1 1/8oz.#3 shot liberated from some Kent Tungsten-Matrix factory ammo. The 11ga. got retired after that hunt, because the stock was cracked horizontally through the tang and it was starting to open up. Now it hangs on my wall in a place of honor as my first BP fowler.
In the 20ga. I shoot 80gr. 3F and 1 1/8oz (by volume) of Bismuth #4's. I usually load an overpowder card, 1 pre-lubed fibre wad, then the shot and an o/s card. Sometimes I'll use a plastic shot cup instead of the lubed wad.
Joel/Calgary said:
Joel... for my 11ga. I was loading 80gr. 2F, 1 overpowder card and then a factory shot cup and approx. 1 1/8oz.#3 shot liberated from some Kent Tungsten-Matrix factory ammo. The 11ga. got retired after that hunt, because the stock was cracked horizontally through the tang and it was starting to open up. Now it hangs on my wall in a place of honor as my first BP fowler.
In the 20ga. I shoot 80gr. 3F and 1 1/8oz (by volume) of Bismuth #4's. I usually load an overpowder card, 1 pre-lubed fibre wad, then the shot and an o/s card. Sometimes I'll use a plastic shot cup instead of the lubed wad.
Joel...Forgot to mention the pink shot cup on the left is the one I use with 1- 1/2 oz. #6 Heavi-shot for turkeys.It fills the cup to the top.Good luck working up loads -p.m. me if you need any questions answered.. Glad to help....Dan
Baron... the thought of using a hard nontoxic with no shot cup-?-.with out a chrome lined barrel raises my eyebrows- what has your barrel wear looked like after loading Bismuth up against the barrel walls,any scoring ? Just curious.I have not tried Bismuth and have no experience...I really think you need to send the Fowler to me for further testing!!!!!!!....I promise to return it in "oh" say 31 years!......Thanks for the info...Dan
Joel/Calgary
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Thanks for the info, Dan. I'm trying to accumulate is what steel shot sizes and what powder-to-shot ratio people have had real-world success with. Yours is essentially an equal-volume load for 1.1/2oz of lead shot, with 3Fg; the few others I've heard from have gone a bit heavier on powder than the traditional equal-volume loads (~1/2-3/4dr depending on shot charge) but with 2Fg, so you're likely in the same range for velocity (1275-1300fps at a guess) or a bit faster. Fe #3 seems popular for ducks and maybe Snows. It's probably what I'll use for an affordable duck load, but it's good to know it works on Canadas, too, if the opportunity arises. My shot of preference for Canadas will likely still be from my dwindling supply of expensive BiSn #4s.
In my first (and only, so far) tries with the MultiMetal wads, I discovered that uniform slitting was critical, or on firing, they would tear off one petal, giving an out-of-round pattern. I haven't figured out how, and how deeply, to slit them to stop this. The other problem with them is that they only hold ~7/8oz of steel.
My range is going to be limited, anyway, as my 16gs is unchoked.
Concerning The Baron's not using shot cups, Bismuth-tin alloy shot is no harder or abrasive than high-alloy lead - probably something like linotype or maybe OLD wheel-weights (about double the alloying of current clip-on ones). The hardness apparently partly makes up (in penetration) for the somewhat lower density compared to lead-alloy shot. Lots of shooters use it without bore/shot protection in muzzle-loaders and no-plastic-on-the-ground traditional cartridge loads.
Tungsten-polymer & the nearly identical tungsten-matrix have the tungsten powder suspended in a plastic (nylon?) matrix. Neither is currently available in loose shot in North America. They are soft/deformable enough for use in old thin-wall chokes, and apparently not abrasive, either.
The only other traditional-load-friendly material currently available in bulk shot is NiceShot produced by EcoTungsten, with tungsten powder suspended in a tin matrix, and coated with tin for bore protection. The bulk hardness is about like current wheel-weight alloy and the density is similar.
Everything else available here in loose shot (that I am aware of) is too hard and/or too abrasive to use without SERIOUS bore protection.
Baron, I thank you as well, for the same reasons - real world experience is always valuable in expediting the development of effective loads and thus preventing mistakes on game.
Regards, gentlemen,
Joel
In my first (and only, so far) tries with the MultiMetal wads, I discovered that uniform slitting was critical, or on firing, they would tear off one petal, giving an out-of-round pattern. I haven't figured out how, and how deeply, to slit them to stop this. The other problem with them is that they only hold ~7/8oz of steel.
My range is going to be limited, anyway, as my 16gs is unchoked.
Concerning The Baron's not using shot cups, Bismuth-tin alloy shot is no harder or abrasive than high-alloy lead - probably something like linotype or maybe OLD wheel-weights (about double the alloying of current clip-on ones). The hardness apparently partly makes up (in penetration) for the somewhat lower density compared to lead-alloy shot. Lots of shooters use it without bore/shot protection in muzzle-loaders and no-plastic-on-the-ground traditional cartridge loads.
Tungsten-polymer & the nearly identical tungsten-matrix have the tungsten powder suspended in a plastic (nylon?) matrix. Neither is currently available in loose shot in North America. They are soft/deformable enough for use in old thin-wall chokes, and apparently not abrasive, either.
The only other traditional-load-friendly material currently available in bulk shot is NiceShot produced by EcoTungsten, with tungsten powder suspended in a tin matrix, and coated with tin for bore protection. The bulk hardness is about like current wheel-weight alloy and the density is similar.
Everything else available here in loose shot (that I am aware of) is too hard and/or too abrasive to use without SERIOUS bore protection.
Baron, I thank you as well, for the same reasons - real world experience is always valuable in expediting the development of effective loads and thus preventing mistakes on game.
Regards, gentlemen,
Joel
Joel..thank you for the info on Bismuth shot,I had it in my head that it was harder.
Have you tried using unslit wads? If they did not slug that would be an option.
Would you consider choking your barrel?
It has been my experience that for waterfowl 10 to 12 ga. works well,I like heavy payloads with these nontoxic shot.
Keep your shots at 35yds or under choked-20 to 25 yds open-choked.
Best of luck...Dan
Have you tried using unslit wads? If they did not slug that would be an option.
Would you consider choking your barrel?
It has been my experience that for waterfowl 10 to 12 ga. works well,I like heavy payloads with these nontoxic shot.
Keep your shots at 35yds or under choked-20 to 25 yds open-choked.
Best of luck...Dan
The Baron
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Hi... the answer has already been provided... but Bismuth is safe for non-steel rated guns (and therefore, fowlers). Bismuth is very hard to find though, unfortunately. I know where there are a few 7 lb cans of #2, #4 and #5 Bismuth, at $120/7 lb. I'm considering buying more even at that price, because it's usually impossible to find at any cost!
My observation from the first day I hunted with my fowler/Bismuth is that the combination is far deadlier than I expected. At our typical decoying geese ranges (15 - 25 yards) this combo kills 'em stone dead. The handicap is trying to reload quickly when there are more geese coming!
My observation from the first day I hunted with my fowler/Bismuth is that the combination is far deadlier than I expected. At our typical decoying geese ranges (15 - 25 yards) this combo kills 'em stone dead. The handicap is trying to reload quickly when there are more geese coming!
Joel/Calgary
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There is a gentleman on another forum producing bismuth shot on a fairly small-scale basis. Apparently the only patents still in effect have to do with casting technology for larger shot sizes, whereas he is using a modified Littelton shotmaker to produce #4s and smaller (and a limited amount of somewhat imperfect #3s). The moderators allowed the link in the past, but I cannot locate that post, so I'm hoping it is still permissible. This was the thread where he offered the shot for sale, then a group purchase developed, and various purchasers offered their evaluations:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=158840
The price changes a couple of times through the thread with the price of metals. Note that the original bismuth shot tended to run a bit undersized, and with the lower density, it performed about like hard lead shot one size smaller. My old BiSn #4s give a pellet count very close to magnum lead #5s (don't have the numbers at hand). IIRC, MasterTinker sizes his shot to weigh & count closer to the same # size of lead shot, rather than being the same diameter, so I would likely order his #5s to get the same performance.
Regards,
Joel
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=158840
The price changes a couple of times through the thread with the price of metals. Note that the original bismuth shot tended to run a bit undersized, and with the lower density, it performed about like hard lead shot one size smaller. My old BiSn #4s give a pellet count very close to magnum lead #5s (don't have the numbers at hand). IIRC, MasterTinker sizes his shot to weigh & count closer to the same # size of lead shot, rather than being the same diameter, so I would likely order his #5s to get the same performance.
Regards,
Joel
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NICE SHOOTIN! Have you or Barron tried the new soft shot carried by BPI in your muzzleloaders? I have late period tags for the Horicon zone only because we have a farm there. Shot ducks with a Pedersoli 12. This year I want to try geese with my 11 ga flinter jug choked modified. Some friends and I used to rent a blind on the point above (N) of Wendts on Winnebago. We stopped a few years ago due to my friends health. I now live in Fond du Lac. Have a good season!
Joel/Calgary
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If you are talking about ITX, it is not that soft and it is VERY abrasive. B.P. recommends using steel-capable shotcups with it. This has been discussed on this board and other, and a web-search may be useful.Flintlock58 said:
Regards,
Joel
Joel/Calgary
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Update - I just found out that Precision Reloading now carries NiceShot and bismuth shot. I have not heard anything about the bismuth yet, or who is making it.
Regards,
Joel
Regards,
Joel
As promised our season did open on Saturday. The weather was
perfect for a day in the marsh. rain and drizzle most of the morning. :surrender: That was about it for a perfect opener we saw lots of ducks and geese until about 11:00 but nothing in rang even if you were carrying a 10 Gauge. :snore: I think we were in the wrong lace at the wrong time. :cursing: :cursing:
We'll be out again soon.
Dusty :wink:
perfect for a day in the marsh. rain and drizzle most of the morning. :surrender: That was about it for a perfect opener we saw lots of ducks and geese until about 11:00 but nothing in rang even if you were carrying a 10 Gauge. :snore: I think we were in the wrong lace at the wrong time. :cursing: :cursing:
We'll be out again soon.
Dusty :wink:
