Flintlock Bullet Barrel

[palonghunter]

If you want more velocity, you may want to consider dropping to a .50 or even a .45. You'll have a really hard time breaking 2,000 fps at the muzzle with a .54.

Having said that, I honestly don't think you'll see drastically improved results as far as deer dropping on the spot no matter what you do. Unless you hit the brain or the spine, they're gonna run off sometimes.

 

[Scota4570]

"I am talking about a shot through the boiler room, and a track of 100 yards. (forgot to mention that) I want to knock them down, right now. I guess the low velocity and poor expansion (because of low velocity) is why these flintlocks don't knock deer off their feet."

It is impossible to "knock a deer off it's feet" with any conventional firearm. It is a myth. Think about it for a second... The rifle would knock you off your feet if it had the power to do it to the deer. If you shot a 50# sack of sand with your rifle would it fly off the test rig. Of course not. Its is silly on the face of it.

I have not kept score. I have killed a boat load of big game. I have used rifles of many calibers, small to large, cartridge and muzzle loaders. Bows too. Never once did I ever knock an animal
off it's feet.

Excessive power normally makes a deeper hole in the mountain behind the animal, nothing more. With super fast modern cartridges you can of course make a blood shot mess too.

For real practical wound channel making, shotgun slugs are great.

A neck shot that breaks the spine will drop a deer where it stands and not ruin meat.

Best of luck.

 

[Billnpatti]

Let me recommend a book. It is "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" by Robert A Rinker. Your library may have a copy or can get one on interlibrary loan.

To calculate the best twist rate for a given bullet you will need to know the muzzle velocity. In the following equation:

k= a constant If the MV is 1800 fps or less that constant will be 150. If the MV exceeds 1800 fps, the constant becomes 180.
l= bullet length in inches
d= bullet diameter in inches
t= twist rate

t=l/(k X d) squared

 

[coloradoclyde]

Your thoughts on caliber and twist to solve my problem?

Xanax or Zoloft should help. :rotf:

Seriously, If I was a tool and die maker with access to good machines I would make every whim that came to mind.

 

[nkbj]

Warning: Opinion Alert
The only real advantage that .54 will provide over smaller bores is that the surface area of the base can make acceleration easier to achieve.

Hey, by the way, if tracking them down and hauling them out is to be avoided, why not change the point of aim?

 

[nkbj]

Oh, pardon, I forgot to say that I've been threatening to get a flintlock faster twist bullet rifle for quite a while and haven't. My biggest boogabear was looking at shot to shot variations in elevation brought about by that plasma blow torch coming out of the touch hole not behaving the same shot after shot, and not (yet) having any data to hang my hat on. So I'd dearly love to hear about how yours turns out.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I have to ask, what range are you taking your deer? How good a shot are you? A lot of recommendations have mentioned neck shots to break the neck, a good idea but not all shooters are consistently capable of it, I know I am not but then I shoot smoothbores so.....

Range is important both for accuracy and velocity. Take your carefully aimed shots a 50 yards or less, never beyond 75. 100 yards is too much for the power you seem to be looking for. You say your soft lead balls are not deforming and the to be expected lack of velocity at long range - for a muzzleloader - may have a lot to do with that. Just thinkin'...... :hatsoff:

 

[7shortmag]

I am a very good shot, I used to shoot informal matches at my local gun club, always offhand shooting. My rifle works VERY well, some of the guys I shot with were expert blackpowder shooters and they taught me a lot of tricks. My rifle is tuned up real nice, the lock and triggers are slicked-up and work perfectly. My shots are always waaay less than 50 yards. I usually have the first 8 to 10 days off work for flintlock season after Christmas, and there is no hurry for me to kill a deer, no pressure, so I pick and choose my opportunities. Because of all mentioned above, I have shot several deer in the head, offhand, because the opportunity presented itself. When I have to track a deer and finish it, I always shoot it in the head. My average shot is usually 10 to 35 yards, broadside, in the ribs just behind the shoulder. Right where a well-placed arrow should find its' mark.

 

[gwalker]

Your not going to get the type of hydrostatic shock from a round ball you normally get from a cartridge projectile that is designed to expand upon impact. A round ball will make a hole upon entry, through the internal organs, and exit in almost as neat a hole as it made when entering the animal, unless bone is encountered and the the round ball typically fragments (still little hydrostatic pressure). Here in Wyoming, and I'm sure in other regions too, we have always said that shooting an animal, such as a deer with a patched round ball, allows you to use the meat right up to the ball's pathway. Not so with a high powered projectile designed to expand, unless you want a lot of stew meat. I can't vouch for all the various projectiles that have been designed to help muzzleloading guns shoot/impact like high powered firearms. In fact, if the manufactures continue on their trend they will soon re-invent the cartridge rifle. But I know the limitations of hunting with a muzzleloading rifle and still have over the course of many years dropped my game animals within very short distances of where they were hit. We call it putting the sportsmanship back into hunting. If you want high hydrostatic pressure from your firearm, switch to a high powered rifle; otherwise, enjoy being in the field with a vintage-style firearm and accept the limitations that our forefathers dealt with when hunting to feed their families. For forty years I have more enjoyed the experience of being in the field with my American Longrifle (flintlock) than I ever did with a high powered rifle.

 

[Tom Compton]

If you want more velocity, you may want to consider dropping to a .50 or even a .45. You'll have a really hard time breaking 2,000 fps at the muzzle with a .54.

Having said that, I honestly don't think you'll see drastically improved results as far as deer dropping on the spot no matter what you do. Unless you hit the brain or the spine, they're gonna run off sometimes.

X2

Seems to me the problem is shooting right where an arrow should go with a rifle and expecting different results. You have to find the arrow shot deer don't you? A central nervous system shot will drop them, I've done it with a .40 flintlock. my favorite shot is with the deer head on and feeding, I aim for the bone that "isn't neck and isn't backbone". They drop.

TC

 

[Zonie]

You might try not shooting for the "boiler room" and try for the shoulder/chest area.

Deer hit in the lungs/heart don't go far even with a lead roundball.

 

[smo]

This is making my head hurt :haha: this is just my opinion and mine only ,but a fast twist barrel on a flintlock would be like starting a fire with matches or washing your feet with your socks on or kissing your sister :idunno: But to each their on if that's what flops your mop go for it. :v You know kissing your sister ain't all that bad....is it???? :blah:

 

[silly goose]

I can't help but ask why you need a
finishing shot after a shot in the boiler room, as you put it. All the deer I've shot in the boiler room were dead long before I could reload.

 

[azmntman]

:nono: I just may have to send you a picture of my sister :nono:

 

[Thing]

First of all , there is NO GUARANTEE ON ANY BULLET for knocking down a deer evrey time. I have seen deer run hit with 300 winchester magnums , 270. 308 etc. Bullet placement is the KEY . The idea is to Kill the deer . If it falls 50 or 100 yards away, tht is the actual result of hunting them. Looking for some type of CANNON to drop them on the spot, Does not exist. Evrey shot is different as far as potential knocking them off their feet goes. Just hunt and enjoy your time afield. Forget about DRT evreytime.It does not exist.

 

[davescott]

You need to learn to track pilgrim.
It's part of the game. Bigger gun won't kill em more dead or quicker. Perfect shot placement will drop em right there regardless of bullet but don't be counting on it

As for powerbelts...they suck! Tumble and keyhole out of my guns

 

[Walks with fire]

I have tried just about everything that can be stuffed down a muzzleloader barrel and have always used real black as well. I have 1/28 twist barrels in flintlock as well. They will increase range because of the increased ballistic coefficient bullets; but it still won't create the shock your looking for.

Even with centerfire rifles your looking at impact velocities of 2650 fps. to have the shock your looking for when hitting the vitals. It's not possible with black powder. Other than spine or head/neck shots the shot that works best for me is the point of the shoulder shot. It will normally knock them right down even with a round ball under 100 yards. There is not that much meat lost from such low velocity impacts from round balls.

I have gone full circle back to round ball and find no issues with them at all. The only thing that higher bc bullets give is flatter trajectory and less wind drift IMO. Sling the big lead if that's what you want but even pure lead isn't going to expand under 900 fps.

Since I am from PA we have a 3 week long flintlock season and I embrace the round ball for what it is. For what it's worth; the deer I took this year was at 63 of my full paces and it went down at impact. The load was 90 grains Goex 3f with a .530 Hornady round ball delivered from a Lyman Deerstalker flintlock to the mid shoulder broadside. Folded up like a suitcase. First deer with that rifle.

I can agree with the larger diameter bore but even a .58 has about 3" midrange trajectory when sighted at 100 yards and were talking muzzle velocities in the 1400/1500 range with a reasonable length barrel and charge.

IMO try shooting your next deer breaking the shoulder bones with whatever is most accurate in your barrel. I don't think you need the big long heavy bullets unless your looking for ranges beyond 100 yards in open woods/field shots. These bullets will hit harder and drift less but for woods ranges a ball into the shoulder gets it down. Twists from 1/22 to 1/28 with the proper depth of groove and lands are what you want for bullet barrel.

From a fellow aero-space machinist; good luck in your journey. I went back to ball and don't plan on looking any further.

 

[Billnpatti]

After reading all of your posts on this thread, I am of the opinion that you may be asking more of a muzzleloading rifle than it is capable of delivering. The very nature of the beast is such that unless you make a spine or head shot, there will almost always be some tracking. A deer shot in the heart/lung area will, with few exceptions, manage to go about 100 yards from the place they were hit before finally expiring. That's often true even when using a modern high velocity rifle. I have shot many deer in the heart/lung area with my .308. Sometimes they don't run at all but other times I find them 75 to 100 yards from where I shot them. Deer, like many wild animals, have an amazing ability to travel a ways from where they are shot before finally falling down. I remember one deer, that I shot with my .308, that was knocked down by the impact of the bullet but it got up and ran about 80 yards before falling down for the last time. When I dressed him out, the heart was completely blown apart and the lungs were a mess but somehow he had managed to get up and run. They are amazing.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I always get a chuckle out of people who refuse to accept the limitations of a muzzleloader.
They try to improve its accuracy, velocity, range, and knockdown power beyond its design. When what they really need is to improve upon their own abilities and shortcommings.
If a persons looks at history they will find that improving upon a muzzleloader led directly to the development of the cartridge firearm smokeless powder and jacketed bullets.. For one to travel backwards in firearms development and use a muzzleloder only to try and re-evolve it back into a cartridge firearm with all the capapbilities of a modern rifle , is a ...........paradox.


Deer, being a herd animal have a tremendous flight response and primitive anatomy.
Rather than trying to make a gun that kills deer faster one should study Ethology, Zoology, Animal physiology, Biology and Anatomy.

 

[don hepler]

Another problem that you have to face, with a patched ball, for instance, is the amount of speed that is lost. From the muzzle, you might be able to obtain near hydrostatic speed, but by the time it reaches 50 yards, a fourth of the speed is lost, and at 100 yards, almost half the speed is lost. It is very difficult to achieve enough speed and maintain it, in order to put the animal into shock. Best we can hope for is a clean kill; but super fast....probably not.