Flintlock Bullet Barrel

[7shortmag]

OK, this may be a long post. Sorry.
I have a T/C Renegade in .54 cal.. The reason why I have a .54 is because I want the larger bullet. I LOVE Flintlock season here in PA., and look forward to it every year. For ever and ever I have been trying to get more knockdown power out of my rifle, BUT, I always shoot deer and end up chasing them and sometimes finishing them off. I HATE that! I have used round balls with patch, two round balls with patch at a time, Powerbelt bullets, cast lead bullets, you name it, I tried it. Still the same results. I am not talking about bad hits on deer either, I am talking about poking holes right through the boiler room and end up chasing deer.

I think the real problem is that I do not have enough velocity to expand the heck out of a big wad of lead and get lots of hydraulic shock on a deer. A big, lumbering wad of lead just plows right through the rib cage without much expansion and shock.

I want to stick with a conical bullet, I do not want to use round balls any more.

I know what you are going to say......that my Renegade has a 1 in 48 twist that is too slow for bullets. Well, I am getting a new barrel made with a fast twist.

I have two choices for my new barrel:
.54 caliber, any twist rate that I choose.
.62 caliber, any twist rate that I choose.
I am thinking the .54 with a 1 in 22 twist may be best.

I want to go with the .62, "just because", but in the back of my mind I somehow think that my problem may not get better, maybe even worse, since I will not be able to drive the heavier bullet any faster.

I am just buying a rifled tube, and doing all the work myself.

As far as conical bullets, I make my own bullet molds, and I can make anything I want. I am a Tool & Die Maker and I own a very well equipped Tool & Die shop.

Your thoughts on caliber and twist to solve my problem?

 

[kyleschumacher]

I'm curious... what's your load in that 54 when you shot the powerbelt bullets? The first rifle I built is a 54 1 in 28 twist Ed Rayl barrel 1" straight by 35" long Hawken style rifle and I've had awesome results putting deer on the ground instantly with powerbelt bullets. The ones I use are 348 grain copper jacketed and hollow point with 100 grains of 2f goex pushing em. I know you said you need more knock down power but have you thought about building a 50? Might be a little more flat shooting than a big 62 bullet!

 

[silly goose]

A shot through the boiler room with anything should not result in a chase of any sort, they are usually dead before the smoke clears. A relatively short track of up to 100 yards on the long end is about it. If you are looking for a Dead Right There shot, you are going to have to break down some part of the central nervous system(spine). Maybe some day there will be better technology in arms performance, but it will just be a passing fad.

 

[7shortmag]

I was shooting 90 gr. of 3F witht he 348 gr. Powerbelt bullets. They had the best knockdown of all that I have tried, but were terrible as far as accuracy was concerned. I was lucky to keep 5 shots in a paper plate at 50 yds. TERRIBLE!

As far as a .50 is concerned, I have a .50 caliber Renegade as well as a .54 Renegade. I like the .54 better because of the larger bullet.

 

[7shortmag]

I am talking about a shot through the boiler room, and a track of 100 yards. (forgot to mention that) I want to knock them down, right now. I guess the low velocity and poor expansion (because of low velocity) is why these flintlocks don't knock deer off their feet.

 

[Dave Marsh]

Have you tried the TC bullets. I had great accuracy results with the TC Maxi Hunter in my .54.

Dave

 

[7shortmag]

Yep, tried them. I have tried literally a couple dozen bullets. None of them met my accuracy needs, including two of my own design that I made my own bullets for. Hence the reason why I am going to a faster twist barrel.

What I really need to decide on is .54 or .62 caliber, and twist rate.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Have you tried a Hornady Great Plains Bullet? 54 cal. 425gr. hollowpoint.

54 Hornady GPB

A bit of paper patch around the sides, because they have been known to unseat with a bump or muzzle down.

 

[7shortmag]

Yup. Tried it.

 

[Semisane]

Let's be realistic about the "dead right there" thing and broadside heart/lung shots.

Mid-chest shots seldom drop a deer on the spot, regardless of caliber and bullet. Sure, a few may drop at the shot, but that's not the norm. It's more likely they are going to run a bit (even with a cartridge rifle).

So, if we use a conservative estimate and say a deer that doesn't drop at the shot can run 25 miles per hour (most sources say and uninjured deer can run 30 to 35 mph).

At 25 mph a deer covers 36.66 feet per second (12.2 yards per second).

At that speed, if a deer lives;
5 seconds after the hit it can cover 61 yards.
6 seconds after the hit it can cover 73 yards.
7 seconds after the hit it can cover 85 yards.
8 seconds after the hit it can cover 98 yards.
9 seconds after the hit it can cover 110 yards.
10 seconds after the hit it can cover 122 yards.

Heavy conicals in a .45 and .50, or round balls in a .54 or .58 are pretty much guaranteed full pass throughs and good blood trail with any broadside shot. And it's always "Hooray for a good blood trail".

As silly goose said, if you are looking for a guaranteed DRT you need impact the central nervous system along the spine (or break both shoulders and mess up a lot of meat).

If you are able to place the shot carefully, a hit just below the spine will shock the central nervous system without much meat damage.

Here's a DRT hit with a conical from a .45.

 

[7shortmag]

Maybe I need to change the question?
Perhaps I worded the question wrongly?

I understand completely what 'Dead Right There" means and how far a deer can run after a fatal hit. I have taken 41 bucks so far in my hunting lifetime, and probably twice as many doe. I have 3 P&Y record book eligible bucks and 2 B&C eligible record book bucks.

I think I have decided to stick with the .54 caliber bullet.
There are commercial bullets available for the .54, and I can make my own molds with no problem. (that's part of the fun of it)

Here's the new question:
With a .54 cal. bullet that is approx. .68 long and weighs approx. 375 grains, what would be a good twist rate for my new barrel?

 

[kyleschumacher]

Yeah that's tough and frustrating if accuracy is not good. I had great results with the twist rate at 1 in 28. The lands are way smaller than the grooves in my barrel. I'm no great shot by any means but I was out at a friends farm shooting and we decided to see how far we could hit with my gun and ran a milk jug out to 200 yards and put 2 holes in it out of 5 shots! Do you have someone making a barrel for you already?

 

[azmntman]

I believe you better learn to track. Though "most" of my kills have dropped or ran and dropped withing seeing distance I have shot a few big game animals with .300 Win Mag and/or 7mm swm and they ALL ran away but one which I tripped over looking for. I have actually had better luck in quick kills with PRB than my centerfires :idunno: Round balls for me have produced the same or better results that conicals and/or center fire mags. Lets face it these animals have a will to live and are gonna try to get the heck away. A grizzly shot 4-5 times through the heart can still kill ya?

 

[kyleschumacher]

Ha! Sorry I didn't see your last post, I would stay in the mid twenties with the twist. Ask your barrel maker he ought to know! :wink:

 

[don hepler]

It seems that we have covered every angle except the answer you're looking for. And that seems to be a bullet that will reach hydrostatic shock. 2200fps is the accepted speed, however the large meplat of a flat nose bullet has been able to create hydrostatic shock at velocities as low as 1700fps. Your question seems to me would be.... what bullet and what twist, out of a 54 Renegade would produce that velocity. I don't know the answer, but that seems to me, to be the real question. You can have a clean kill, by having a well placed shot, you can have a fast kill by having a perfect shot (heart or breaking bone and frontal lung) but a less than perfect shot along with hydrostatic shock, can bring down a deer, faster.

 

[7shortmag]

Thank You hadden west, you smacked it right in the rib cage!

 

[don hepler]

It sounds like our hunting experiences are quite similar. Perhaps a ballistic expert will give us the answer.

 

[gunmaker43]

Ed Rayl recommends 1:36 in his .54, Son has a new one but hasn't blooded it yet....It does shoot GP 425's quite well on paper---so far....Tom

 

[smo]

That's the man I was going to suggest calling If anyone knows what rate of twist is best he should.

 

[graybeard]

There are lots of variables. I killed most of my deer with a .30-30. Some dropped in their tracks, some ran incredible distances with a bullet through the heart. I guess if you're not losing any hit deer, I wouldn't be so concerned. graybeard