Flintlock eats flints... What to do about it?

[MIOutdoorsman]

I recently completed a Pendersoli flintlock (Kentucky) pistol kit, and it's fun one! I had read that this model "eats flints," and after the first day on the range, I can confirm that to be true. Actually, the very first time I tested the spark the frizzen chipped away (flattened the sharp point to a less-sharp point) a brand new flint quite a bit. The gun was fully functional for several shots at the range, but after about 7 or 8 shots, the spark started to diminish. At one point I had several FTF's, and was able to get her to fire with a combination of vent hole pick, cleaning the pan and frizzen and flint, and multiple tries. Still... I'm pretty sure that the main problem was that the flint was breaking down to where it wasn't throwing enough spark, and I was surprised at how quickly this happened.

So my question is, when you have a gun that is flint-hungry like this, do we just buy lot's of flints and keep it happy that way? I don't know anything about knapping flint... is that something that I need to learn now with this gun? I do not think this lock has any sort of adjustments other than the flint jaw, where I can adjust the flint back or forward. The flint assortment that I have are all just long enough (actually a little too long) that it's hard to get it set so that at half-cock, the frizzen closes completely. This problem is quickly corrected after a couple of shots, as the tip of the flints get broken down pretty quickly to the point where the pan will close completely. Do I need shorter flints?

I'm hoping I can find a solution that allows me to have confidence for that "first shot" of the day, since this will be a hunting gun too (within 50 feet max), not just a target toy.

Incidentally, my Lyman GPR seems to live happily on one flint for a very long time, so while it has other lock issues, eating flints is not one of them.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If you are using the flint in the bevel up position, you can take a flint wide strip of leather lacing and place it under the flint near the jaw screw. This changes the angle of the flint to the frizzen face slightly and may improve flint life as the flint will begin to slice along the frizzen rather than bash it.

 

[Cowboy]

I would imagine you’re using 5/8 flint’s in that pistol my friend?

If so, check the length measurements of your flint’s? Sounds like your flint is to long.

The 5/8 flint usually comes in two length sizes.

5/8 X 5/8

5/8 X 3/4

Sounds like you’re using a 5/8 X 3/4 flint my friend.

Measure the length of your flint. If it’s 3/4 in length try a 5/8 ? Pretty positive that’ll solve your flint eating problems.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Thanks for these ideas! Both are excellent, and I will try them. The flints that I have were purchased as a bundle from TOTW, and to be honest, I don't recall the specs on that purchase...but I bought them with my rifle in mind, so it wouldn't surprise me if I bought the longer ones for that rifle.

I can totally appreciate the "lift the rear" of the flint idea too to alter the angle of impact. Makes total sense. I use a thin lead strip instead of leather to hold the flint in the jaws, but I can easily add another strip of lead under the rear of the flint to see how that affects things.

I'll start with the flint size, then move to the "heel lift" idea!

I gain so much insights from this forum, and I'm appreciative of all who share their wisdom.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Grenadier and Cowboy provided simple and sensible recommendations. Those are the things to try first!

However, I had that problem with two locks, one Pedersoli and one L&R. Sparking was adequate but not great with new flints, and after five or six shots, ignition was questionable to poor. Flints were totally done in after 10-12 shots. I sent both locks to Brad Emig of Cabin Creek Muzzleloading in Pennsylvania. He actually called me up after working on them to explain what he did. The main problem was that the springs (mainspring and "feather spring, or frizzen spring) were not properly balanced. They need to work in harmony as the flint scrapes the frizzen. If there is too much or too little force in the mainspring, or too much or too little resistance in the feather spring, you can have problems. I think he also gave some attention to the frizzens, to ensure appropriate hardness and polish. There may be other issues involved with your lock, such as the angle of the cock jaws. Brad told me he works on a lot of Pedersoli locks.

However, it's always a good idea to try the simple things first, and the suggestions provided by our friends above are good ones.

Notchy Bob

 

[Dave Marsh]

Yep, I have the same pistol and I sent my lock to Brad as well. Works great now.

Dave

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Yep, I have the same pistol and I sent my lock to Brad as well. Works great now.

Dave

Ugh. I hate to have to send a brand new lock in for a repair. Hopefully diff flints or techniques above will prevent that.

 

[Dave Marsh]

Two or three shooting sessions and I sent mine. Too aggravating.

Dave

 

[tallpine]

First thing I'd do is replace that lead you are using with a piece of leather. I too believe your flints are too long. Go to Harbor Fright and get you a cheap Diamond wheel and grind the back of the flint down until you can get some clearance between your flint and the frizzen. If that doesn't work your probably going to need a lock mechanic.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Every Pedersoli lock I have had the frizzen spring was way to strong and the frizzen heel needed work.
They are mass produced CNC parts and not hand crafted as they ought to be!

 

[jager43478]

I recently completed a Pendersoli flintlock (Kentucky) pistol kit, and it's fun one! I had read that this model "eats flints," and after the first day on the range, I can confirm that to be true. Actually, the very first time I tested the spark the frizzen chipped away (flattened the sharp point to a less-sharp point) a brand new flint quite a bit. The gun was fully functional for several shots at the range, but after about 7 or 8 shots, the spark started to diminish. At one point I had several FTF's, and was able to get her to fire with a combination of vent hole pick, cleaning the pan and frizzen and flint, and multiple tries. Still... I'm pretty sure that the main problem was that the flint was breaking down to where it wasn't throwing enough spark, and I was surprised at how quickly this happened.

So my question is, when you have a gun that is flint-hungry like this, do we just buy lot's of flints and keep it happy that way? I don't know anything about knapping flint... is that something that I need to learn now with this gun? I do not think this lock has any sort of adjustments other than the flint jaw, where I can adjust the flint back or forward. The flint assortment that I have are all just long enough (actually a little too long) that it's hard to get it set so that at half-cock, the frizzen closes completely. This problem is quickly corrected after a couple of shots, as the tip of the flints get broken down pretty quickly to the point where the pan will close completely. Do I need shorter flints?

I'm hoping I can find a solution that allows me to have confidence for that "first shot" of the day, since this will be a hunting gun too (within 50 feet max), not just a target toy.

Incidentally, my Lyman GPR seems to live happily on one flint for a very long time, so while it has other lock issues, eating flints is not one of them.

Problem is the lock was designed to spark with no attention put towards lock tuning . I don't know what your mechanicsl skills are what you need to do is relieve spring pressure mostly on on the frizzen spring and possible the main spring. A grinder along with a belt sander along with sandpaper and polishing the springs once the right spring pressure is met. A good lock will fire without a frizzen spring. Just remember to good with tje lenght of the spring

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Problem is the lock was designed to spark with no attention put towards lock tuning . I don't know what your mechanicsl skills are what you need to do is relieve spring pressure mostly on on the frizzen spring and possible the main spring. A grinder along with a belt sander along with sandpaper and polishing the springs once the right spring pressure is met. A good lock will fire without a frizzen spring. Just remember to good with tje lenght of the spring

I'd categorize myself as above average in terms of home maintenance and such, but I don't have the skills to know what I'd be doing with trying to modify the springs on a lock. I'd ruin it for sure, then be out whatever the costs of buying a new one, and then possibly having it tuned too!

I have a couple of smaller flints on order from TOTW, and I'll give them a try. I'll replace the lead wrap with leather (that makes sense too), and see what sort of angling I can fiddle with to see if I can get a good spark without crushing the flints. If not... I guess I'll reach out to Dave. Kinda makes a guy a little mad to have a brand new item that needs to be repaired. Even if it is mass produced, you'd think that they'd figure out the right tuning and then mass produce them all to those specs. Oh well. It was my project gun during COVID, I still love it, and if I need to have Dave re-tune it, that'll happen next!

 

[Britsmoothy]

They play safe, to safe. That frizzen spring probably does a few locks.
They probably want to limit returns of busted springs by rushed or made thin springs so play safe over engineering a safety margin for themselves.
Once us the consumer has fixed/tuned the lock they are no longer responsible.

Usually one narrows the width of the vee spring to lighten it.
I have as well on one lock warmed the frizzen spring with a gas torch gently to soften it some. I have also made my own spring.
What ever I did in all cases was much better than before.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Ok... I happened across this YouTube video, and I wonder if some here could comment. This is for a different brand of flintlock (Traditions), but the guy shows a very easy way to soften up the main lock spring.

Thoughts on this technique fellas? Should I try this on my pistol (if the other approaches are unsuccessful)?

 

[jimairwin]

I recently completed a Pendersoli flintlock (Kentucky) pistol kit, and it's fun one! I had read that this model "eats flints," and after the first day on the range, I can confirm that to be true. Actually, the very first time I tested the spark the frizzen chipped away (flattened the sharp point to a less-sharp point) a brand new flint quite a bit. The gun was fully functional for several shots at the range, but after about 7 or 8 shots, the spark started to diminish. At one point I had several FTF's, and was able to get her to fire with a combination of vent hole pick, cleaning the pan and frizzen and flint, and multiple tries. Still... I'm pretty sure that the main problem was that the flint was breaking down to where it wasn't throwing enough spark, and I was surprised at how quickly this happened.

So my question is, when you have a gun that is flint-hungry like this, do we just buy lot's of flints and keep it happy that way? I don't know anything about knapping flint... is that something that I need to learn now with this gun? I do not think this lock has any sort of adjustments other than the flint jaw, where I can adjust the flint back or forward. The flint assortment that I have are all just long enough (actually a little too long) that it's hard to get it set so that at half-cock, the frizzen closes completely. This problem is quickly corrected after a couple of shots, as the tip of the flints get broken down pretty quickly to the point where the pan will close completely. Do I need shorter flints?

I'm hoping I can find a solution that allows me to have confidence for that "first shot" of the day, since this will be a hunting gun too (within 50 feet max), not just a target toy.

Incidentally, my Lyman GPR seems to live happily on one flint for a very long time, so while it has other lock issues, eating flints is not one of them.

Frizzen is too soft. Harden with Kasenit (sp?). Works great for me. follow directions closely.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Frizzen is too soft. Harden with Kasenit (sp?). Works great for me. follow directions closely.

Help me understand this Jim. I would think that if the frizzen was too soft, I'd have the opposite problem--flint not making sparks. Instead I have what appears to be the flint chipping away very quickly and wearing out (and also making less spark).

Can this happen with a "soft" frizzen?

 

[jimairwin]

I've been building and tuning flintlocks over 50 years. Flint digs into soft steel, causing chips and fast wear. Frizzen too hard and flint skates off w/o sparking. The sparks are small bits of steel cut off from the frizzen with temperature high enough to make them burn in air. Like sparks from a grinding wheel. Frizzen has to be hard enough, but not too hard. The quality of the sparks tells if the steel is "right" (and the flint is sharp). A sharp flint will often dig into a soft frizzen enough to stop the flint in mid-stroke.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

I've been building and tuning flintlocks over 50 years. Flint digs into soft steel, causing chips and fast wear. Frizzen too hard and flint skates off w/o sparking. The sparks are small bits of steel cut off from the frizzen with temperature high enough to make them burn in air. Like sparks from a grinding wheel. Frizzen has to be hard enough, but not too hard. The quality of the sparks tells if the steel is "right" (and the flint is sharp). A sharp flint will often dig into a soft frizzen enough to stop the flint in mid-stroke.

Ahhh... that makes sense. THANK YOU for educating me! So if the above mentioned tips don't work, I guess I'll send the lock off for a professional to look at to determine whether it's the springs, frizzen hardness, a little of both, or something else entirely.

 

[sportster73hp]

I also had a problem with a replacement frizzen that was soft. Previous owner had it repaired . The flint dug in and stopped just before the frizzen opened.

 

[rich pierce]

Fixing locks online does not usually work that well. Flintlocks are complicated mechanisms. Problems can occur in many areas. Architecture/design. Force. Balance of force. Hardness, parts fit, and parts finish. User expertise. A lick in the hand is worth 100 online when it comes to diagnostics.