Flintlock flash guards for competitive tournaments

[Commodore Swab]

Not true. I've been hit in the face by ejecta from a flintlock 10 feet away.

Could be very correct. My breakdown I did a number of years back was demonstrating blank unwadded firing with and without a flash guard employing different grades of priming powder. This was based on the NPS rules at their events relating to the use of flash guards. Therefore loaded or wadded barrels were not part of the testing. The testing showed that debris/embers travelled greater distance with 2f and flashguards than 4f and nothing.

 

[Grenadier1758]

More prone to misfire and powder spillage reduce reliability. Typically a generic bolt on is not an improvement whether it's a musket or car. Other than that the NPS calls for FF powder in the pan with the flashguard installed. FF burns slower than FFFF and the pan will redirect sparks up and over a greater distance than FFFF with no flashguard installed increasing the safety distance required rather than decreasing as intended. Couple that with the added difficulty loading, increased possibility of dropped powder, and less reliability you can see why I disapprove.

Like @Howard Pippin, I have several rifles and smooth bores with flash guards and other firearms that don't have flash guards.

I do agree that for some, the flash guard does interfere with priming of the pan, especially the King's Musket (Brown Bess, Long Land Pattern), as I use a spare paper cartridge to prime the pan with whatever powder we use to fill our cartridges when firing blanks. There is no difference in ignition performance between firing with any grade of powder from 1F to 4F. There is spillage from using the paper cartridge to prime. I have a small priming horn with a fine tip to prime with 4F. That's not a problem when priming the Bess. As far as redirecting the flash goes, we did have one instance of firing (blanks) in ranks with the first rank kneeling, that the flash ignited the tassel in the miter (hat) of the man in the kneeling rank. The muskets are required to have flash guards.

For the rifles, I use a priming dispenser with valve that clears the flash guard. No problem with priming the rifles. The flash guard does get in the way of picking the touch hole. Often, when I am at the range and am picking the touch hole before priming, I let the flash guard drop. I notice no difference in ignition performance. The flash guard up may be a little faster as the flash guard keeps the heat from the pan close to the touch hole.

Even when I am shooting guns with a flash guard, I will set up a barrier such as an extra target stand to keep the pan flash from spraying the shooter next to me.

Some competitions require the use of flash guards or shields between shooters. In some woods walks where the shooter are shooting in line, the flash guard provides the barrier between the pan and the adjacent shooter and is a good device. Our Woods Walks, such as the Fall Rendezvous at Fort de Chartres require the flash guards and hammer stalls as a group firing does take place and a barrier between the shooters is impractical.

At our club, some members that do not have flash guards will place a target board between benches or have made a barrier to attach to the bench. For @IanH, I would suggest a barrier be built to set up between his bench and the next shooter. It's a bit of a pain and extra equipment, but with it when pan flashes may affect the shooter in line with the pan flash.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Sorry for confusion. I wasn't referring to ignition performance in the powder grades as the assumption is a working gun with good sparking lock. I was referring to how the powder burned. This is viewable with the proper camera. Larger grains will still be burning when the charge is ignited and be given a chance to travel straight or in an arc. The best way to completely avoid this is using priming powder. As far as interfering with operation I will also clarify. The flashguards being produced are generally made to fit a musket sized lock with bridled frizzen. When you have someone simply screwing them onto an unbridled frizzen, pistol, or other they will interfere with the lock operation. On the locks they were designed to fit the interference is based on the operators level of skill.

 

[Grenadier1758]

However, the flash guards can be designed to fit bridled and unbridled locks. Admittedly these are the large musket locks and are easier than some of the other installations.

My Long Land Pattern musket is unbridled and the guard can be seen above the musket. The guard is fastened to the pan.

In the next picture you can see flash guards installed on the unbridled Long Land Pattern Musket and below the flash guard installed on the Serjent's Fusil.

Yes, these are Loyalist Arms muskets.

 

[Sooty Scot]

I began reenacting a few years ago, so I fit a flash guard to my Fusil. In my ignorance, fiddle-fitting it, it ended up stiffly mounted but still pivotable down to ease priming and picking, Thumbing it down and back has become part of the motor memory of loading for me. Learned the reality of touchole backflash the hard way long ago. Not easily forgotten.
I also have a small Siler lock I need to convert, when I can bring myself to risk screwing it up - no easy access to a shop or drill press. Good to know about Mr. Lea. I'll probably send it to him.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Sooty Scot, the Siler lock is the easiest to install a flash guard. The bolt for the frizzen is drilled through the bridle. There is a flash guard installation kit available that includes a long bolt for the frizzen axle, the flash guard, and a nut to hold the guard in place. No machining is required.

Track of the Wolf has the parts. Search for flash guard to order the long bolt and nut and the flash guard of your choosing.

 

[springfield art]

I built a hand cannon for a friend and it's debut was at a pirate invasion in the park where all the "rules" were attempting to be followed by the ignorant staff. They were very confused trying to check the safety on a matchlock. . . For fun I put a flashguard and frizzen stall on the hand cannon. They had no clue what to do!
View attachment 267807View attachment 267808

Neat-o!

 

[springfield art]

I know you need one for re-enacting where you're standing right next to another guy, but in target matches that's not such a consideration.

 

[Keyhole]

@Sooty Scot, the Siler lock is the easiest to install a flashguard. The bolt for thr frizzen is drilled through the bridle. There is a flashguard installation kit available that includes a long bolt for the frizzen axle, the flashguard, and a nut to hold the guard in place. No machining is required.

Track of the Wolf has the parts. Search for flashguard to order the long bolt and nut and the flashguard of your choosing.

Yes TOTW has the hardware and it works great. I installed it on my left-handed flintlock that uses the large Siler lock. No issues at all with the install.

Most folks aren’t used to catching the pan flash from a lefty….

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I did the very same thing about 15 years ago with my flintlock and I will say that Mike Lea did a fabulous job. Still on the rifle, I still use it.
Squint

And more kudos from me for Mike Lea and his daughter who I believe runs everything now. Was about 2005 or 6 and I needed to put a flashguard on my Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle for an upcoming reenactement. It also has an interior bolt instead of an exterior one. He sent the kit to me and I had some questions so I called him up. He told me I could send the lock and kit to him and he's be happy to mount it at no charge but would probably take about 2 weeks (one week shipping each way). He then offered to walk me through the process. I chose the second option and he talke me though how to heat up and chase the threads on it to make sure they were the correct size. Traditions made them with two different size threads at the time. It was a simple procedure and the following weekend I was able to use it in a reenactment. The kit I got from him for the L&R Queen Anne lock on my Early Lancaster rifle was a simple bolt on because the bolt head was on the exterior of the lock and he supplied a longer bolt to secure it in the kit. Kits were not expensive and their customer service is top notch.

Surprisingly there is some historical records and extant examples of flash guards on 1700's arms that he e-mailed to me. One is bolted on like modern ones and the other doesn't appear to use any bolts. I've attached those so you can check them out if you like.

If you don't believe in flashguards, I suggest you stand shoulder to shoulder on the right of someone using a flintlock while he fires it. Your left cheek will get burned by the flash and by some of the still burning black powder granules. Then step about 3-feet away and you'll still get burned. At 6-feet, you're probably fine with only the occasional slight burn. There was an old saying that you could recognize the British soldiers of the line by the black specks embedded in their left cheeks.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Regarding reinactments where the NPS rules are followed I am reminded of corona. Let's have flash guards to prevent burns but then specify people can't stand close together. Let's all wear masks but stay apart. If the masks/flash guards work why specify nobody can get close. If you are far apart why the need for masks/flashguards? Oh and if you read flash guards are also required for civil war percussion caps!

Regarding the originals some Spanish guns had a device but it was attached to prevent wind from blowing the powder as with snaphaunce weapons. I doubt the purpose was preventing your neighbor from getting "warm" as I don't think those ordering the guns to be built really cared that much for those firing.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

NPS? No Pirate Shoes?

 

[sturmkatze]

Learned the reality of touchole backflash the hard way long ago. Not easily forgotten.

?? Can you please explain this?

 

[sturmkatze]

Regarding reinactments where the NPS rules are followed I am reminded of corona. Let's have flash guards to prevent burns but then specify people can't stand close together. Let's all wear masks but stay apart. If the masks/flash guards work why specify nobody can get close. If you are far apart why the need for masks/flashguards? Oh and if you read flash guards are also required for civil war percussion caps!

Regarding the originals some Spanish guns had a device but it was attached to prevent wind from blowing the powder as with snaphaunce weapons. I doubt the purpose was preventing your neighbor from getting "warm" as I don't think those ordering the guns to be built really cared that much for those firing.

Who cares about masks. I’m not wearing one at a reenactment. I’m not wearing one at all. I did wear my leather German wwi gas mask to a pulmonologist appointment.

“Preventing your neighbor from getting warm”??? Are you serious? People do not need to get burned. Are you suggesting that this is okay? Maybe you think things are overblown.

Maybe you don’t mean it to be, but your posts come off as bloviations of a member of the old All American Party. Anyway, your arguments with people like Nick and Mike Brooks are about to cause you to join my ignored list.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I was "suggesting" that hundreds of years ago the ruling class/generals didn't care if there was a little flame close to someone else.

There was nothing about wearing masks it was about the lack of logic required in both cases.

NPS is national park service.

Hope this clarifies

 

[IanH]

Being on FlinterNick, FrenchColonial, Comfortably Numb, and Sturmkaze's ignore lists would make for a much more pleasant forum. "bloviations" indeed.

Back to MY thread, I just learned something from @Sooty Scot that I didn't know: The flash guards attached to the frizzen screw are intended to pivot down for cleaning and loading, which answers one of my original questions about how much do they get in the way when cleaning the pan on humid days. Thanks.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Being on FlinterNick, FrenchColonial, Comfortably Numb, and Sturmkaze's ignore lists would make for a much more pleasant forum. "bloviations" indeed.

Back to MY thread, I just learned something from @Sooty Scot that I didn't know: The flash guards attached to the frizzen screw are intended to pivot down for cleaning and loading, which answers one of my original questions about how much do they get in the way when cleaning the pan on humid days. Thanks.

Something else you can learn today. On many cocks there is a half circle cut out behind the top jaw screw. This is so a piece of leather can fit after being punched with 2 holes. This locks the leather into the lock so you can change a flint without needing to change or cut a new piece of leather.

 

[sturmkatze]

I was "suggesting" that hundreds of years ago the ruling class/generals didn't care if there was a little flame close to someone else.

There was nothing about wearing masks it was about the lack of logic required in both cases.

NPS is national park service.

Hope this clarifies

I know exactly what the nps is. You’re not real clear. Are you against flash guards because they’re not something common back then or you think they are somehow unsafe or is it that you think it lowers performance? Methinks thou overthinketh this too much.

 

[oreclan]

I'm in totally agreement with you.
Once..I was invited to a SAR grave Marking ceremony that required flash guards on the guns.
No way I wasn't going to put one on for the ceremony or any other time either.
I passed.

Rather disrespectful of the Patriots being honored. I participate at every ceremony that my SAR performs, along with the tri-state areas DARs of course I have been doing reenacting for 50 years where flash guards with TWO POINT attachments have been required for most of that time.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Another subject hammered down to a micron thickness.....