Flintlock no-sparking problem

[w7spk]

Hey guys!

I have an "AN IX" french smoothbore flintlock pistol in 69 cal (reproduction possibly by pedersoli, looks the same as the pedersoli version anyway). I've always had issues getting a good spark from the frizzen and usually takes about 5 or more tries before it finally catches the powder. A gunsmith and muzzleloading enthusiast friend said to try and pollish the face of the frizzen and quit using the cut Thomspon Center flints. Bought some good quality english knapped flints, polished the frizzen shinny, cleaned all the oil and everything off the frizzen so it's just bare metal, adjusted the flint so at half-cock, it's almost touching the closed frizzen, and cleaned up all the screw heads so they're not rubbing against the hammer. The thing runs like clock work, but now instead of a weak spark, I'm getting NO spark. No problems with the flint shattering any more since I quit using the thompson center flints, but no spark. Tried a thompson center flint again just to see if there was any difference and I'm getting no spark with those either. So I figured that polishing the frizzen was the problem, so I scuffed it back up with file. No luck. Bevel up or bevel down, no difference. If I take a dremmel to it, I get the same amount of sparks that I do from a hard file. What in the world is my problem? Any suggestions? I'm lost and would like to shoot this again. I've owned it for almost 2 years and have only shot it twice.

Sean Kelly

 

[J.D.]

Polishing the face of the frizzen was a mistake. you may have removed any case hardening that was there.

What does the face of the frizzen look like?
Is it still smooth, or does it have deep scratches down the face of the frizzen.

Is/was there a gouge where the flint first makes contact with the frizzen?

If so, it's too soft.

Pedersoli is well known for case hardened, mild steel frizzens.

The solution is case hardening.

A .005, or so deep case can be added to the surface of the frizzen with 30 minutes at temp using Kasnit. A .030 deep case can be added by pack hardening for 3 hours, at temp. However, pack hardening takes some knowledge and some small investment in equipment.

God bless

 

[w7spk]

Wow, cool thanks!!! You know I kind of suspected that I might have removed the case hardening but wasn't sure. Yes, where the flint first hits it's starting to form a dent and groves are forming where the jagged edges of the flint stick out more than the rest of the surface.

Now to re-harden it, couldn't I just do the old redneck trick of heating it with a torch and then dropping it in motor oil?

Thanks for all your help!

Sean Kelly

 

[Zonie]

Some impact "dents" (very shallow ones) happen with all flintlocks. So do the scratches down the face of the frizzen.
After all, the whole idea here is that the very hard flint will cut away small pieces of the metal forming the white hot sparks.

You mentioned "so I scuffed it back up with file".
You did not say if the file actually cut the metal but your filing should have felt like you were filing a piece of steel that was as hard as the file. In other words, it should have left some bright, slightly rough areas but no more.

If the file did actually cut into the metal, I agree that the frizzen should be rehardened.

If the frizzen was made out of a high carbon steel or a good high alloy steel you could just heat it and quench it but if, like J.D. says, it is made out of a mild steel that was case hardened, heating and quenching it will do nothing at all.
In fact, if it was a carburized low carbon steel, heating it and quenching it in oil could remove almost any hardness it ever had.

Because a water quench can fracture an alloy or high carbon steel I do recommend first quenching with oil. If the oil quench does not harden the metal, then, reheat and water quench.

If a water quench doesn't harden it, it does not have enough carbon in the metal and it will require carburazation with something like Kasnit.

 

[David W.]

The frizzen needs to be case hardned with Kasnit. If it is mild steel, only adding carbon will work. Simply heating it will do no good. Through hardening only works on high carbon steel.

The frizzen must be heated to a yellow-red color, dipped in Kasnit, reheated and dipped once more and another reheat. Hold the frizzen with a large pair of vise grips over the pivot hole to draw heat away as it does not need to be hardened in that area. A propane torch will not heat it enough, you need a oxy/mapp torch. Quinching in water is OK, but motor oil/transmission oil is better. After that, be extremely careful not to drop it as it is now in a brittle state. Heat your oven to 500 deg, place the frizzen and let leave it there for three to four hours. Air cool and sand the with crocus cloth to remove the extra Kasnit. Oil the contact points and reinstall. If you feel you can not do this comfortably, send the lock off to TOW and they will perform the service for you.

 

[J.D.]

The frizzen needs to be case hardned with Kasnit. If it is mild steel, only adding carbon will work. Simply heating it will do no good. Through hardening only works on high carbon steel.water is OK, but motor oil/transmission oil is better. After that, be extremely careful not to drop it as it is now in a brittle state. Heat your oven to 500 deg, place the frizzen and let leave it there for three to four hours. Air cool and sand the with crocus cloth to remove the extra Kasnit. Oil the contact points and reinstall. If you feel you can not do this comfortably, send the lock off to TOW and they will perform the service for you.

My experience with Kasnit is quench in warm water and temper for an hour at 350-375 degrees. i do like to leave the part in the oven to cool on its own. In my experience, 500 degrees gives a too soft surface to spark well.

God bless