Flintlock pistol identification

[vandeda]

Good evening,

I came into this flinklock pistol. It was in my mother-in-law's closet. She and no one in their family recognize it nor know where it even came from. Fortunately, they thought of me. Can anyone identify it? It is very well used as the wood and metal parts are well worn down, there are replacement bolts, missing side plate, and looks like the stock was cut down (my guess is it broke somewhere along the lines and was cleaned up in it's shortened side) with missing ram rod; however the lock still functions. Even with it's issues, I'm excited to have obtained it!

So, does anyone know what it is (i.e., who made it and approximately when)?

Thank you!

 

[hawkeye2]

I believe you have a very old non-firing gun. Replicas for decorative purposes were very popular during the last half of the 1800s and this could be one of them. Does the barrel have a touchhole? Does the bore extend all the way back to the area of the pan (touchhole if it has one)? I'm basing my guess on the quality of the carving and inletting of the parts into the wood as well as the somewhat crude detailing of the brass parts. Please do not consider firing it even with a blank load till you have had it checked out by a contentment individual.

 

[vandeda]

It has a touchhole, and the barrel extends to the touchhole. It appears heavily used as there is lots of wear on the wood where the hands/fingers would naturally lay.

No plans on firing it.

 

[hawkeye2]

The trigger guard looks to be a simple replacement someone made many years after the gun was assembled. Are there any markings on the barrel (proof marks) or lock? I couldn't see any in the photos but it's possible there could be some on the underside of the barrel.

 

[vandeda]

I cannot see any markings on the lock or barrel. However, the metal on top the receiver looks well worn as you can see where a design used to be (you can see part of said design in the last picture), but is worn down. Not sure of underside as I haven't had time to disassemble it.

I agree the trigger guard is clearly a homemade replacement. If it was a firing gun, it was heavily used or abused.

 

[vandeda]

I took some more pictures after disassembling. Not sure what to make of it. I see no proof marks, though if they were on top of the barrel, it appears they could have been worn away as the( what I'll call) spades decoration is almost worn away, and it was clearly modified for the homemade trigger guard as you can see someone ground the bottom of the barrel. What's interesting, the grind looks fairly recent as there is no rust on it at all, yet no one knows where it came from. As noted, the wood is very worn down (the pattern where my thumb and index finger is completely gone). Could it be an old replica that had a touchhole drilled?

 

[rickystl]

Hi Vandeda

You have what is commonly referred to in collectors circles as an Ottoman Kubar (horse) pistol. These were made and in use in that region up through the third quarter of the 19th Century - in mostly flintlock configuration. They were usually made at one of the many gun making centers in the Balkans using imported barrels and locks, and locally assembled and decorated for local tastes. They were usually unmarked and made by the thousands over a 100 year time span. Which is probably the reason there are so many specimens still available today.
Your's looks like it's seen a lot of action and is well worn. Not surprising. It appears it's missing a portion of it's forearm stock. The barrel band looks to be a heavier casting added later by someone. As mentioned, the trigger guard is a later addition. Probably to replace a broken/missing one. Although, some of these pistols were actually made without trigger guards. Notice the crude hand made screws. Many of these guns turn up with lock plate screws made in 1850 that look like they were made in 1600. LOL
Anyway, hope this helps. And thanks for posting.

Rick

 

[vandeda]

Thank you Rick! I searched Ottoman Kubar, and lo and behold, pistols with nearly identical design features. Given commonality, crudeness and condition, my guess is it's probably not worth very much, correct?

Exactly what I was looking for! I plan on cleaning it up (I.e., remove & neutralize active rust and oil) and make it a wall hangar for conversation purposes.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Van

Glad I could help. No, unfortunately it's about what they call a $100.00 wall hanger. But it's a good example of the saying: "If this gun could only talk" LOL It's obviously seen a lot of action. It's amazing how popular these pistols remained in that Region of the world for such a long period.

Rick

 

[vandeda]

Thank you again Rick. I will say there's nothing unfortunate about it. It may not be worth much, but I can appreciate old, well loved, used, and abused guns too since they can have stories to tell. And, I won't have to worry about having something too valuable hanging on my wall. Plus, in it's current condition, I won't be tempted to shoot it since, being in NY, I cannot legally shoot it since I don't have a pistol permit.

 

[Codgernam]

Interesting old pistol . One does wonder what those old guns have seen.