Flintlock rifle with "Spain" stamp on barrel

[fatdog5]

I purchased a used flintlock rifle today at our gunshop, very clean but it has only "Spain" stamped on top of the barrel. No other marks. For what I paid it will look fine over the fireplace if it turns out to be a lemon, but I would really like to shoot it with my grandkids. I am brand new to flintlocks.
Can anyone share any information or ideas about this rifle? thanks

 

[TFoley]

I purchased a used flintlock rifle today at our gunshop, very clean but it has only "Spain" stamped on top of the barrel. No other marks. For what I paid it will look fine over the fireplace if it turns out to be a lemon, but I would really like to shoot it with my grandkids. I am brand new to flintlocks.
Can anyone share any information or ideas about this rifle? thanks

Prolly made by Armas Jukar in the 1970's...not usually highly thought-of and definitely at the lower end of quality.

Leave it over the fireplace unless anybody here tells you better than me, and get a nice American-made gun.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There were literally dozens of importers bringing various quality Spanish made guns into the US in the 1960's through today. Some were just veriations of others. There was Dikkar, Jukar, Ardessa, and other actual factories. The early ones were truely cheaply made. But then again there were some even lesser quality guns brought in from Belgium in the 1960's and 1970's. And some from China that were real junk. By the early 1980's there were some good quality guns made in Spain. The rifling was better and the parts were better in general. Of the cheaper guns were some long rifles with two piece stocks and brass spacers. The cheaper locks had neither a bridle or fly. There were some incredibly cheap early ones and the interior lock parts were not hardened properly and went to mush in a few shots. I had a Markwell Arms Hawken that was an incredible POS. The lock tumble broke the full **** notch off within 12 shots.

CVA sold some of the junk, as well as some of the better stuff. Traditions sold a slightly cheaper version of the same CVA models. Without a picture, it is really hard to id your gun. In addition, there were variations in models depending on what the importer wanted. Slightly better lock, slightly lesser quality finish, etc. Brass or steel furniture, There were some real classic well made guns from Spain. The CVA Squirrel rifle was a great little gun. I and a few others here have old CVA catalogues. If you can post a picture or give a better description, maybe we can be more specific.

 

[fatdog5]

Well it turns out this is one of the cheap split stock models with the brass spacer. The bore looks like it has never been fired, and the action seems to have plenty of spring to it.
Were these safe to shoot? If not, what does it cost to get a good "plinker" for the grandkids and I to have some fun with.
Even this cheapo is pretty neat!

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There were two different locks used on that basic model. The early flintlock was of questionable quality. The later one, even though bare bones basic was a good sparker. They are made and sold as shooters. Use an appropriate sized Eglish flint and it should be fine. Some of them had touch hole liners and some just had holes drilled through the barrel for a touch hole. Several thousand black powder fanatics started with such guns.
Other than the trigger pull they were fair hunting guns.

 

[fatdog5]

Thanks for the info. I think we will go ahead and try this rifle out. It will be fun and probably will lead to a better one.

 

[Zonie]

Your "Made in Spain" gun is safe to shoot with real black powder.

None of the new synthetic powders like Pyrodex, Seven7seven or what'shisnames gold will work in the pan or in the barrel.

Even priming the pan with real black powder seldom sets off a main charge if it is one of these synthetic powders.

Also, when you prime the pan make sure the priming powder does not cover the vent hole in the barrel.

If the vent hole is covered by the priming powder it will produce that old "CLICKWHOOOOOOOOOOOOFF BANG" we've seen so many times in the movies.

 

[Badger]

There were literally dozens of importers bringing various quality Spanish made guns into the US in the 1960's through today. Some were just veriations of others. There was Dikkar, Jukar, Ardessa, and other actual factories. The early ones were truely cheaply made. But then again there were some even lesser quality guns brought in from Belgium in the 1960's and 1970's. And some from China that were real junk. By the early 1980's there were some good quality guns made in Spain. The rifling was better and the parts were better in general. Of the cheaper guns were some long rifles with two piece stocks and brass spacers. The cheaper locks had neither a bridle or fly. There were some incredibly cheap early ones and the interior lock parts were not hardened properly and went to mush in a few shots. I had a Markwell Arms Hawken that was an incredible POS. The lock tumble broke the full **** notch off within 12 shots.

CVA sold some of the junk, as well as some of the better stuff. Traditions sold a slightly cheaper version of the same CVA models. Without a picture, it is really hard to id your gun. In addition, there were variations in models depending on what the importer wanted. Slightly better lock, slightly lesser quality finish, etc. Brass or steel furniture, There were some real classic well made guns from Spain. The CVA Squirrel rifle was a great little gun. I and a few others here have old CVA catalogues. If you can post a picture or give a better description, maybe we can be more specific.

Mine says Spain only 2 piece. Stock 50 cal ??

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Mine says Spain only 2 piece. Stock 50 cal ??

I believe Ardesa was the only Spanish maker that made a two piece stock in 50 caliber. They were made primaily for CVA and Traditions for export to the US and for some other wholesalers for the rest of the world. Ardesa guns are often sold under one name in the US and with other names overseas. There have even been Ardesa models made that are not sold in the US. (Traditions' fault.) The 50 caliber 2 piece stock first appeared around 1980 and is still a popular model today. They have excellent round ball rifling in the barrels.. The locks are fair to good, but not great. I am surprised that a one piece replacement stock is not more in demand.

 

[sheriff john]

Shoot it. Have fun. That's what shooting sports are all about. Once a guy masters the flintlock, everything else is a piece of cake.

 

[springfield art]

I purchased a used flintlock rifle today at our gunshop, very clean but it has only "Spain" stamped on top of the barrel. No other marks. For what I paid it will look fine over the fireplace if it turns out to be a lemon, but I would really like to shoot it with my grandkids. I am brand new to flintlocks.
Can anyone share any information or ideas about this rifle? thanks

Spanish guns are known to have poor quality metal in the locks; maybe this project could get you to research a bit and find a truly shootable rifle, should the current one turn out to be not quite up to snuff. If you're new to flints, this is a perfect opportunity to learn! Good luck what ever you do! This is a good site for help & info.

 

[tenngun]

There were literally dozens of importers bringing various quality Spanish made guns into the US in the 1960's through today. Some were just veriations of others. There was Dikkar, Jukar, Ardessa, and other actual factories. The early ones were truely cheaply made. But then again there were some even lesser quality guns brought in from Belgium in the 1960's and 1970's. And some from China that were real junk. By the early 1980's there were some good quality guns made in Spain. The rifling was better and the parts were better in general. Of the cheaper guns were some long rifles with two piece stocks and brass spacers. The cheaper locks had neither a bridle or fly. There were some incredibly cheap early ones and the interior lock parts were not hardened properly and went to mush in a few shots. I had a Markwell Arms Hawken that was an incredible POS. The lock tumble broke the full **** notch off within 12 shots.

CVA sold some of the junk, as well as some of the better stuff. Traditions sold a slightly cheaper version of the same CVA models. Without a picture, it is really hard to id your gun. In addition, there were variations in models depending on what the importer wanted. Slightly better lock, slightly lesser quality finish, etc. Brass or steel furniture, There were some real classic well made guns from Spain. The CVA Squirrel rifle was a great little gun. I and a few others here have old CVA catalogues. If you can post a picture or give a better description, maybe we can be more specific.

I had a CVA ‘colonial’ pistol. Very basic mostly poor. It was .45 and the bore was off center.
It was $23 dollars. I remember I had saved $25, and bought a pound of powder with the other two.
Ok it’s CVA in the seventies. Everything about it as tge stuff of jokes in the Buckskin report magazine. Yet using a rest this little El Cheapo shot one hole at 25 yards with a .440 TC pre lubed patch and 30 grains GO 3 f

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I had a CVA ‘colonial’ pistol. Very basic mostly poor. It was .45 and the bore was off center.
It was $23 dollars. I remember I had saved $25, and bought a pound of powder with the other two.
Ok it’s CVA in the seventies. Everything about it as tge stuff of jokes in the Buckskin report magazine. Yet using a rest this little El Cheapo shot one hole at 25 yards with a .440 TC pre lubed patch and 30 grains GO 3 f

my first flintlock was a CVA kentucky pistol kit that i purchased for $29.95 in December 1972 at the Discount store called Two Guys from Harrison at the White Hall Mall outside of Allentown PA. My dad had a friend that built muzzle loaders and hunted with them. He and my Dad made me take my time and do everything right. I finished it "in the white". I had the barrel buffed and polished like a mirror. I had lousy follow through and found out the term flinchlock was appropriate for me. That gun was quite a source of pride. Then one day at a range, two fellows approached me and asked to see it. Remarking how they had never seen a CVA done so well. I learned the one guy was a gun smith. He offered me $250 for it. So I sold it because I had seen a trade gun for sale for that exact amount. He taught a muzzle loader building class somewhere done near Richmond and used my gun as an example of what could be done when a person took their time and did a nice job. We ran into each other several times afterward. He could shoot that pistol far better then I could.

BTW. CVA guns were made Jukar until about 1980 when CVA switch production to Ardesa. Ardesa quality control was better but still not great.

 

[deermanok]

The OP was from 12 years ago. I wonder if he ever figured it out?

 

[rkg1]

Had one of these given to me many years ago. I threw away everything but the barrel, sight and the trigger and made a fine shooting flintlock half stock. I had the front of the barrel turned round to make it lighter but then added an under rib so I lost all of the gain. It made a very good shooting rifle with excellent balance, A gun I really like. Also a 45 caliber.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

The most accurate light rifle I ever fired was a CVA Kentucky with .45 caliber Jukar barrel. I always felt they were junk, and because I had a number of nice rifles with Douglas, Getz, Taylor, DeHaas, Green Mountain barrels etc I was pretty secure in my opinion.
A friend passed away and left his CVA 2 piece stock Kentucky to a friend who eventually wanted to shoot it. This fellow gave the rifle to me to work up a load and sort things out for him. And I did. That sucker shot better than any of my "good" rifles. Was pleasantly surprised, and duly impressed.