Flintlock Snobbery

[Enfield58]

 

[olskool]

I love flintlocks, but I have been handloading conventional ammo since I was 10 years old in 1967! I have a room full of loading equipment and components. I think anything that goes bang or boom! is cool. there are certain guns I have no personal use for but I say to each his own. my wife has been blonde brown and even red headed, but nowadays it has a silver tint, I like that too! I adapt improvise overcome,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Whitworth]

My magnifying glass gun would have eliminated the need for flints or caps. However the long lock time and sunny day only battle requirements caused this project to be just a flash in the pan.

 

[Enfield58]

 

[30coupe]

Okay, I'll stir this pot. I've probably got enough caps for what's left of my lifetime, so while you flintlock afficianados are knapping your flints, rehardening your frizzens, and picking your vent holes, I'll be out shooting.



Just kidding of course. I'd love to try a flintlock, but the Covid-19 thing has pretty well wiped out my discretionary spending. I've got three caplocks and lots of caps though, so unless someone gifts me a fine flintlock, I'll continue to fumble with those little copper things to make smoke and poke holes.

 

[Bledfor Days]

^ Flintlockers are always 'picking their vent holes.' Lol

 

[Enfield58]

Okay, I'll stir this pot. I've probably got enough caps for what's left of my lifetime, so while you flintlock afficianados are knapping your flints, rehardening your frizzens, and picking your vent holes, I'll be out shooting.



Just kidding of course. I'd love to try a flintlock, but the Covid-19 thing has pretty well wiped out my discretionary spending. I've got three caplocks and lots of caps though, so unless someone gifts me a fine flintlock, I'll continue to fumble with those little copper things to make smoke and poke holes.

I’ll shoot anything that goes “bang.”

However, there is one side to flintlock shooting; frugality.

The average price for a tin of 100 percussion caps is about $8.00. Without anything else that’s about 8 cents per shot.

I usually average about 50 shots per flint. Last year I found the best bargain for flints was from Jedediah Starr. IIRC the 3/4” flints were about $1.99 each. I ordered 100 of them. With shipping that set me back about $220.

Do the math and that comes out to about 4.4 cents per shot.

 

[Bledfor Days]

So that's where the term 'skinflint' comes from.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

LD

 

[sawyer04]

In the days of old I never encountered snobbery in the black powder shoots, however in NRA shoots it was a different story.

 

[MSW]

well, "the right tool for the right job..."

for the thug who kicks in your door in the wee hours of the morning, i won't feel compelled to be very sporting about it ... a few well placed charges of #4 buckshot through a 12 gauge ought to solve the problem, if said thug declines the one-time-only order to halt (said warning to be delivered in the language of my choice and once only) ...

but for fun, in my opinion, nothing beats the magic of a flintlock ... magic ... wow- the fool thing actually went bang ... how 'bout that ... so that's what i shoot except in certain very compelling circumstances ...

now if you feel the inexplicable urge to launch some lead using those odd- ball gadgets, well that's your right, and i'll gladly defend your right to do so, even if i think it's pretty silly.

 

[rusticbob]

Excellent thread!
Reminds me of my dad, he would only hunt birds and rabbits with a sxs shotgun. He told me once," If God had wanted us to shoot over and unders, he would have made us with one eye over the other" I can't repeat what he said about autoloaders!!

 

[JeffG]

I've always been a rocklock shooter. The only caplock I have ever owned was an over under Beretta 12 gauge shotgun. Snobbery? That's funny. Great thread.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Thanks for the humor and sarcasm. It makes me smile. As far as percussion vs flint goes, extensive testing by all the major modern (at the time) militaries, made it very clear; percussion guns were more reliable and accurate than flint guns and that included rifles as well as smooth bored muskets. Even sport hunters were on board, which was why the flintlock makers developed ever more complicated locks and powder chamber systems to compete with percussion arms. The great sporting writers of the day, like Peter Hawker, all advocated percussion and he was no armchair expert. By the late 1830s, the debate was over (until the modern muzzleloader revival) and everyone was just arguing how quickly all would be converted or changed.

Having said all that, I have little interest in percussion guns because by the percussion era, the artistry of muzzleloading firearms was waning fast. In my opinion, the decoration and elegance of firearms peaked in the late 17th and 18th centuries. During the 19th century guns generally became plainer. When decorated it was often garish, gaudy, and grotesque. From 19th century long rifles with many ugly metal inlays to over decorated, florid, and awkward looking European guns, very little of it appeals to me. The Victorian period tendency to mix all kind of styles together just to fill space make me think of guns as "Knick Knack" collections. Nonetheless, the main trend was that guns became plainer and more utilitarian. As a gun maker, I am not very interested in making plain guns because they require all the chore work but you never get to the fun stuff. The exception for me are military flintlocks because they require meticulous details to get right, which is fun. Even making 18th century guns with a percussion conversion does not appeal to me because the drum and nipple conversion is a lousy, stop-gap, technology and the gun always looks like it is missing parts.

dave

 

[troy2000]

A bit of history from Wikipedia, regarding the flint knapping industry in in Brandon, England.

Historically, flint knappers commonly suffered from silicosis, due to the inhalation of flint dust. This has been called "the world's first industrial disease".

When gun flint knapping was a large-scale industry in Brandon, silicosis was widely known as knappers' rot.[7] It has been claimed silicosis was responsible for the early death of three-quarters of Brandon gun flint makers. In one workshop, seven of the eight workmen died of the condition before the age of fifty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapping

 

[Griz44Mag]

I’ll shoot anything that goes “bang.”

However, there is one side to flintlock shooting; frugality.

The average price for a tin of 100 percussion caps is about $8.00. Without anything else that’s about 8 cents per shot.

I usually average about 50 shots per flint. Last year I found the best bargain for flints was from Jedediah Starr. IIRC the 3/4” flints were about $1.99 each. I ordered 100 of them. With shipping that set me back about $220.

Do the math and that comes out to about 4.4 cents per shot.

Hmmmmm. Where in the heck are you buying caps from??? Overt the counter at Bass Pro? Nope, just checked them - under .06 each with tax.
I buy from several outlets, PVI regular price is 43.00/thousand. Same as your unit price for flints. I usually wait until there is a sale on them and stock up for around 30 bucks per thousand. I get good mileage out of my flints too, but the 50 per each average is only when an exceptional flint comes along. Don't misunderstand, I shoot flintlocks, capguns, and a lot of other stuff so I am not condemning anything, just not to acceptive of your "facts"....

 

[Treestalker]

'I REFUSE TO TAKE THIS ABUSE ANY LONGER' -character 'Hooper' in the movie 'Jaws'.

 

[Rudyard]

Hi,
Thanks for the humor and sarcasm. It makes me smile. As far as percussion vs flint goes, extensive testing by all the major modern (at the time) militaries, made it very clear; percussion guns were more reliable and accurate than flint guns and that included rifles as well as smooth bored muskets. Even sport hunters were on board, which was why the flintlock makers developed ever more complicated locks and powder chamber systems to compete with percussion arms. The great sporting writers of the day, like Peter Hawker, all advocated percussion and he was no armchair expert. By the late 1830s, the debate was over (until the modern muzzleloader revival) and everyone was just arguing how quickly all would be converted or changed.

Having said all that, I have little interest in percussion guns because by the percussion era, the artistry of muzzleloading firearms was waning fast. In my opinion, the decoration and elegance of firearms peaked in the late 17th and 18th centuries. During the 19th century guns generally became plainer. When decorated it was often garish, gaudy, and grotesque. From 19th century long rifles with many ugly metal inlays to over decorated, florid, and awkward looking European guns, very little of it appeals to me. The Victorian period tendency to mix all kind of styles together just to fill space make me think of guns as "Knick Knack" collections. Nonetheless, the main trend was that guns became plainer and more utilitarian. As a gun maker, I am not very interested in making plain guns because they require all the chore work but you never get to the fun stuff. The exception for me are military flintlocks because they require meticulous details to get right, which is fun. Even making 18th century guns with a percussion conversion does not appeal to me because the drum and nipple conversion is a lousy, stop-gap, technology and the gun always looks like it is missing parts.

dave

The side plug,' drum & nipple' conversion does lack parts .But as to plainness less can be more .Not that I get into percussion much, I draw the line at hammerless a proper gun has hammers .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Enfield58]

Hmmmmm. Where in the heck are you buying caps from??? Overt the counter at Bass Pro? Nope, just checked them - under .06 each with tax.
I buy from several outlets, PVI regular price is 43.00/thousand. Same as your unit price for flints. I usually wait until there is a sale on them and stock up for around 30 bucks per thousand. I get good mileage out of my flints too, but the 50 per each average is only when an exceptional flint comes along. Don't misunderstand, I shoot flintlocks, capguns, and a lot of other stuff so I am not condemning anything, just not to acceptive of your "facts"....

Jedediah Starr did have them at $69.99 per 1000. Add in shipping and hazmat charges that’s about 8 cents per round. It looks like the are on sale now for$52.99 for Remington and $49.99 for CCI. By my estimate they are probably about 7 and 6 cents per round, respectively, with shipping and hazmat.

I haven’t shopped at PVI. Got a link?

 

[Treestalker]

When the flintlock fails to fire, then comes the bayonet! And it doesn't run out of bullets! - 'Kill 'em, kill 'em all! Take your bayonet and kill 'em all!' Al Pacino's phone caller in 'Dog Day Afternoon'.