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Flintlock Trigger Pull Help

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terrydull

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Need the help of an expert craftsman to lighten the trigger pull on my "new to me" Pedersoli Indian Trade Gun. Existing trigger pull seems to heavier than 8 lbs ... I'd like to get it to about 4 lbs. I'm located in SW Ohio ... so if you are there or N KY or SE IN ... let me know.

Thanks!

PS - And no I can't DIY ... I own a screwdriver, a hammer, and some pliers.
 
Is it a double set trigger? If so the screwdriver you own should be good enough to turn in the little screw on the trigger plate which is there to lighten the trigger pull.
 
Need the help of an expert craftsman to lighten the trigger pull on my "new to me" Pedersoli Indian Trade Gun. Existing trigger pull seems to heavier than 8 lbs ... I'd like to get it to about 4 lbs. I'm located in SW Ohio ... so if you are there or N KY or SE IN ... let me know.

Thanks!

PS - And no I can't DIY ... I own a screwdriver, a hammer, and some pliers.
With a tool chest like that, your only option is to find a gunsmith who is willing to work on your gun.
 
With a tool chest like that, your only option is to find a gunsmith who is willing to work on your gun.
I guess I didn't really answer terrydull's question so here is a quote I made in another thread. The guy was thinking of reducing the force of the mainspring to reduce the weight of the trigger pull;
---------------------------

The mainspring is almost never the source of a heavy trigger pull. Do not try to reduce the mainsprings pressure.

The source is usually due to one of three things.
If the full cock notch in the tumbler is not machined at the correct angle with respect to the axis of the tumbler's shaft, the nose of the sear will be forced to climb uphill as it is withdrawn from the full cock notch. This condition will result in the hammer or cock appearing to move slightly to the rear as the trigger is pulled. This happens just before the hammer or cock is released.
If the lock's full cock notch is wrong, have a good gunsmith modify it. If you try to do this yourself there is a good chance of overdoing it. This can result in the shape pushing the nose of the sear out of engagement which will cause the gun to fire even without anything pulling the trigger.

The second thing that can cause a heavy trigger pull is, the location of the pin which the trigger rotates on is too far from the arm on the sear. This is a matter of leverage so, moving the pivot point closer to the sear arm (usually moving it rearward towards the butt of the gun) or, bending the sear arm so it makes contact with the trigger blade is the only fix. Bending the arm on the sear has it's risks. The nose of the sear is hardened and somewhat brittle. On some guns, the entire sear including the arm is hardened. If the arm is hardened, it will break if it is bent. To see if bending the arm is possible, use a file to try to remove a little material from the arm of the sear. (It is the thing that sticks out at 90 degrees from the lock plate. Moving it up, releases the tumbler.) If it is soft and files easily, it is OK to bend it forward a bit to make it closer to the trigger pivot pin.

The third common source of a heavy trigger pull is due to the sear spring. It is usually a small U shaped spring at the rear of the lock (TC and Lyman use coil springs). You can reduce the force created by the sear spring by filing the side of the (usually) lower leaf of the spring. It is the part of the spring that is pushing directly on the sear. Reduce the width of this spring, tapering it from the area of the bend, where it's width should be left alone, toward the tip of the leaf that contacts the sear. The taper can reduce the width from the original width at the bend, down to about 3/32" wide at the tip that contacts the sear. Don't overdo this. The spring must have enough power to always engage the nose of the sear with the half cock notch and the full cock notch.
Do NOT try to reduce the thickness of the leaf. Making the leaf thin will usually cause it to break.
______________________
As one might gather from this, at least a pair of locking pliers to hold the spring and a good metal cutting file is needed in addition to a screw driver to remove the lock from the gun and the spring from the lock.
 
I guess I didn't really answer terrydull's question so here is a quote I made in another thread. The guy was thinking of reducing the force of the mainspring to reduce the weight of the trigger pull;
---------------------------

The mainspring is almost never the source of a heavy trigger pull. Do not try to reduce the mainsprings pressure.

The source is usually due to one of three things.
If the full cock notch in the tumbler is not machined at the correct angle with respect to the axis of the tumbler's shaft, the nose of the sear will be forced to climb uphill as it is withdrawn from the full cock notch. This condition will result in the hammer or cock appearing to move slightly to the rear as the trigger is pulled. This happens just before the hammer or cock is released.
If the lock's full cock notch is wrong, have a good gunsmith modify it. If you try to do this yourself there is a good chance of overdoing it. This can result in the shape pushing the nose of the sear out of engagement which will cause the gun to fire even without anything pulling the trigger.

The second thing that can cause a heavy trigger pull is, the location of the pin which the trigger rotates on is too far from the arm on the sear. This is a matter of leverage so, moving the pivot point closer to the sear arm (usually moving it rearward towards the butt of the gun) or, bending the sear arm so it makes contact with the trigger blade is the only fix. Bending the arm on the sear has it's risks. The nose of the sear is hardened and somewhat brittle. On some guns, the entire sear including the arm is hardened. If the arm is hardened, it will break if it is bent. To see if bending the arm is possible, use a file to try to remove a little material from the arm of the sear. (It is the thing that sticks out at 90 degrees from the lock plate. Moving it up, releases the tumbler.) If it is soft and files easily, it is OK to bend it forward a bit to make it closer to the trigger pivot pin.

The third common source of a heavy trigger pull is due to the sear spring. It is usually a small U shaped spring at the rear of the lock (TC and Lyman use coil springs). You can reduce the force created by the sear spring by filing the side of the (usually) lower leaf of the spring. It is the part of the spring that is pushing directly on the sear. Reduce the width of this spring, tapering it from the area of the bend, where it's width should be left alone, toward the tip of the leaf that contacts the sear. The taper can reduce the width from the original width at the bend, down to about 3/32" wide at the tip that contacts the sear. Don't overdo this. The spring must have enough power to always engage the nose of the sear with the half cock notch and the full cock notch.
Do NOT try to reduce the thickness of the leaf. Making the leaf thin will usually cause it to break.
______________________
As one might gather from this, at least a pair of locking pliers to hold the spring and a good metal cutting file is needed in addition to a screw driver to remove the lock from the gun and the spring from the lock.
Thank you, learned something today
 
With sincere respect to Zonie, for the most part on reproduction locks (including large military locks) taking metal off a Sear Spring only gives MAYBE a reduction of 1/4 to at very most a 1/2 lb trigger pull change. I don't know how many times I've used certified trigger pull weights to prove that.

However if the lower leg of the sear is binding up against the bolster on the sear for the sear screw, then one must carefully shorten and round the tip of the bottom leg so it doesn't do that, but it never takes much off the bottom sear leg to do that. The ONLY time I reduce the size of a Sear Spring is on original large military locks because they have much more strength than needed to keep the sear nose engaged in the half cock and full cock notches. Even so, I don't need to do it very often even in those locks.

However, Zonie is absolutely correct the angle of the full cock notch should be as perpendicular to the center of the tumbler as possible. This angle being off forwards or rearwards is way too common on many repro locks. The problem when changing the angle is many tumblers and sears are only surface hardened and you cut though that hardness when you have to change the angle. That means you have to re-harden and anneal the tumbler.

A good gunsmith will be able to get the trigger pull down to around 4 lbs or a little more and have the lock not catch in the half cock or other problems come up. The "break" of the trigger should also be very much improved. However, many gunsmiths don't know HOW to do this work, so it is best to find a gunsmith who does know how to do this work and not expect the average gunsmith to do it well.

Gus
 
Zonie and Gus have covered the problems and remedies well ! Some additional thoughts , I like and use sear lifts a lot on all manor of rifle and hand gun. This is accomplished by drilling a small hole ( 1/16th inch carbide bit) under the full cock notch edge in the tumbler, inserting a piece of drill rod (held in with red loc-tite) and tapering the top so sear nose will ride up and not catch on it. This will limit the depth of sear engagement and thus trigger pull weight without any change in the engagement angle or main spring tension.
Another problem I have run into over the years on sear engagement angle is how well the surfaces mate horizontally.The engagement angle can be perfect vertically but if not parallel in the horizontal you will still have a crappy let off that will wear very quickly. This problem is usually a result of a loose bearing fit of the tumbler through the lock plate and may need correcting to get a good simple trigger let off or even good function from set triggers which will often cover up this problem.
 
Need the help of an expert craftsman to lighten the trigger pull on my "new to me" Pedersoli Indian Trade Gun. Existing trigger pull seems to heavier than 8 lbs ... I'd like to get it to about 4 lbs. I'm located in SW Ohio ... so if you are there or N KY or SE IN ... let me know.

Thanks!

PS - And no I can't DIY ... I own a screwdriver, a hammer, and some pliers.
 
Thanks everyone! ... gun/locksmith was able to tune up the lock and make a few other improvements that greatly improved the shooting ability of the musket. Trigger pull was 14 lbs + according to his instrument. It is now down to 5 lbs. He opened up the touch hole a bit and added a flash protector. So, it will be woods-walk and silhouette ready for 2021 at Friendship.

I'm trying to find some Swiss Null B for the pan, as I hear it sparks the best. I'm still using GOEX 4F. Also switched to Schuetzen but it seems to foul more than GOEX ... so, I might switch back.

But again, many thanks for the advice.

Please have a Happy Thanksgiving with your family this year!
 
Personally, I have never noticed any real difference using null B or 4f either for that matter in the pans of any of my flintlocks. I prime with 3f and shoot with 3f. The only thing I use 2f for is my Brown Bess. Lord knows, it's hard enough to just get my hands on enough of that these days!
 
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