flintlock

[frankie]

Im thinking of buying a flintlock rifle. Are they dependable shooters? How many shots on average can one shoot using the same piece if flint?

 

[billraby]

A well made and maintained flintlock is more reliable than a percussion rifle. The basic factory production guns usually are not going to be that dependable. But they can be. Some of the Pedersoli guns can be pretty good. Generally they will be the more expensive ones. The most reliable locks are going to be the ones used for the custom guns and they are fairly expensive. It takes a bit of skill to get them set up just right. A well made flintlock is very dependable, but not they cost a bit of money.

 

[tenngun]

There is a learning curve. If one is not careful a light mist can stop them. If your careful one can shoot in all but a gully washer.
we all get the dreaded clatch, but if your careful you’ll shoot 99 times in a hundred.
Realistically 95-97%.
I’ve been hunting with flint locks these forty five years and never had a miss fire while hunting.
I’ve gotten more then fifty shots from a flint, and have had them shatter on the second or third shot. All and all I figure thirty shots for a flint.
A big lock like a musket or trade gun lock will do better then a small pistol lock. A high quality lock like Chamber or L and R, Davis ect will do much better then lighter locks like Traditions or old CVA
I’m thinking the Great Plains Rifle uses a coil spring, for sure the old TC locks did. Exterior they look like old lock but made more in expensively and general work almost as well as a high quality traditional lock
Flintlock are addictive. Many people are dedicated percussion shooter, and they don’t like flint. However flint is very addictive and flint shooters are pretty loyal to their rock-in-the-locks

 

[Phil Coffins]

Flintlocks can be a lot of fun and the best ones are pretty reliable. There is a reason that percussion guns took over for military and sporting use, they work better. We do this for fun so don’t hesitate to try flintlocks.

 

[Jim Evans]

Im thinking of buying a flintlock rifle. Are they dependable shooters? How many shots on average can one shoot using the same piece if flint?

My personal preference is the Investarms made factory rifle, better then the Lyman as far as overall fitting.As far as Flint use the Black English,and you can get 30 of more shots from a Flint. I don't like the cut flint.
This is the Investarms Hawkens model, also comes in a kit.

Next would be a Custom made rifle, with a custom lock.With a know builder.

 

[tnlonghunter]

As above, it all comes down to a combination of the general quality of the lock and the knowledge of the shooter. The best made locks (to include, but not limited to Chambers, Davis, mentioned above) are fast, smooth, and have really good geometry between the different parts (especially the angle of the cock-jaws to the frizzen),which are critical to throwing good sparks.

The shooter's knowledge comes in with learning how to set your flint and keep it sharp (as well as knowing when to change it), how much prime to use (rarely as much as you think at first), etc. Even so, there is a lot of room to do well, even if you don't have a high-dollar lock. It just takes more vigilance.

The lock on my first flintlock is not a great one (it's an old, unmarked Siler style). Despite being a rifle sized lock plate, it takes a smaller flint than I'd like and doesn't throw huge sparks. In the first few years I got no better than 60-70% reliable ignition and went through flint like crazy. However, once a seasoned shooter showed me:
1) how to reposition my flints better and keep them knapped for a sharper edge,
2) that I needed to wipe off the frizzen face and pan between shots,
3) to prick the touch hole to clear out any blockage and open a clear channel into the main charge, and
4) prime with only 1/3-1/2 of a pan full

...all that, and my ignition reliability went up to 95-98%. In fact, i don't remember the last time that particular rifle misfired on me - though I'm super anal-retentive about it.

By comparison, I've got a nice Deluxe Siler lock on my newly finished rifle, and I think I got around 70 or so shots from the first flint with only minimal knapping. It only misfired when the flint became as dull as a baseball. The other factors are still valid. They sound labor intensive, but once you get in the habit, they become second nature and are quite quick to perform (relatively speaking). Besides, if you're shooting for speed, would argue a flintlock isn't really a great platform for that in the first place. I shoot these specifically because I enjoy all these little processes of making them work well.

I'll add one more thing; I think flintlocks can be more reliable than a percussion lock, specifically because of the flash-hole/flash-channel difference. For all the techniques that are useful in tuning and running a flinter, you're not likely to drop a flint or horn when trying to prime like you will a cap. More importantly, the flash-hole on a flinter is a short, straight channel to the main charge. Very easy to clear with a pick. The flash channel to on a percussion gun is that right angle through the nipple and drum. So if it gets blocked, it's much harder to clear.

Just a few of my own experiences. YMMV.

 

[Daveboone]

As mentioned, a steep learning curve with a flinter. I bought my first last spring and quickly fell in love with it. I read up and made sure I bought a quality rifle (the new Lyman Great Plains Rifle). Flintlock shooting is for the shooter who is interested in making each shot count, and will take the time to get the routine down. For me it was going back to the roots of the sport. I joined a local black powder club to shoot weekly, familiarity building success. I can easily say my flintlock is as reliable as many of the shooters percussion rifles. I no longer really keep tabs on the longevity of a flint, and am no where near as good a flint knapper as many, but easily get at least 30 shots a flint. Some more, some less. I keep the flints and resharpen them for later use at the range when not hunting or shooting league.

 

[Zutt-man]

I’ve been around flintlocks for over 25 years. There’s a lot of truth to be seen in the comments above. A well made and timed lock will solve most of the dreaded ‘clatch’ issues. You can certainly get reliability out of some cheaper firearms, but they’ll be hit or miss. A reputable firearm, custom gun from a good builder, or a Kibler, will be more reliable.

As far as flints are considered, 25-40 shots should be expected. May have to sharpen every now and again. You’ll hear lots of stories of 50-100 shots before changing flints. Again, a good lock and proper flint positioning will solve most issues.

Welcome to the addiction!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Im thinking of buying a flintlock rifle. Are they dependable shooters? How many shots on average can one shoot using the same piece if flint?

Is a flint lock dependable? That depends on how dependable the shooter is on maintaining the lock. Is the flint sharp? Is the flint well positioned in the jaws of the cock? Is the pan and steel clean of fouling? Are the internals of the lock well polished on the mating surfaces? Has the locked been tuned for optimal performance? Even the best of the production locks will benefit from maintenance of the internal surfaces. Even the best and well tuned locks will fail to fire if the flint is not maintained.

How many shots can one expect from a flint? Every flint is different. There are few ways that the internal flaws can be determined before putting the flint in the jaws of the cock. There is a wide range of strikes that depend mainly on how well the lock is tuned. You have been getting a lot of good answers from others on the Forum. I suggest that you concentrate on preparing the lock and the flint to be reliable on the next shot. Check the flint for position before priming the pan. Verify that the touch hole is clear. Is the flint sharp? Note: @dave_person has demonstrated that a well tuned lock can fire even using a piece of quartz he picked up off his driveway.

 

[mmb617]

I've never shot a percussion gun so I can't make any comparisons, but I own 5 flintlocks and even though they are cheap ones I enjoy them immensely. There is a learning curve but that just makes it more interesting as you figure out some of the tricks of the trade so to speak.

I'm not hunting so the occasional misfire isn't a big deal. When that happens I try to figure out exactly why it occurred as I build my knowledge base.

If I were trying to get a really high percentage of my shots to fire every time I wouldn't push my flints as far, but as it is I run and knap them till they are too short to contact the frizzen properly. Flints do vary and some don't last a dozen shots but I often get 80+ shots out of one, even with my "junk" locks.

 

[tenngun]

Is a flint lock dependable? That depends on how dependable the shooter is on maintaining the lock. Is the flint sharp? Is the flint well positioned in the jaws of the cock? Is the pan and steel clean of fouling? Are the internals of the lock well polished on the mating surfaces? Has the locked been tuned for optimal performance? Even the best of the production locks will benefit from maintenance of the internal surfaces. Even the best and well tuned locks will fail to fire if the flint is not maintained.

How many shots can one expect from a flint? Every flint is different. There are few ways that the internal flaws can be determined before putting the flint in the jaws of the cock. There is a wide range of strikes that depend mainly on how well the lock is tuned. You have been getting a lot of good answers from others on the Forum. I suggest that you concentrate on preparing the lock and the flint to be reliable on the next shot. Check the flint for position before priming the pan. Verify that the touch hole is clear. Is the flint sharp? Note: @dave_person has demonstrated that a well tuned lock can fire even using a piece of quartz he picked up off his driveway.

Ozarks is limestone and chert. I have my driveway graveled with crushed lime stone. And some chert got in the mix. I found lots I could shoot right off the ground in my trade gun lock
I found some in flat tires too.

 

[frankie]

Thank all of you for your reply's, ALL! I feel I got great honest advice. I've only had percussions but now I think I'm going to try a flintlock. They look fun. I can't think you all enough. Guys like you are what makes this forum great!

My personal preference is the Investarms made factory rifle, better then the Lyman as far as overall fitting.As far as Flint use the Black English,and you can get 30 of more shots from a Flint. I don't like the cut flint.
This is the Investarms Hawkens model, also comes in a kit.
View attachment 123206
Next would be a Custom made rifle, with a custom lock.With a know builder.

I think I will do a pedersoli or investarms. I dont think I would be good enough to try a kit gun yet.

 

[BillKilgore]

I am a novice with only a few months' flint experience, but even I know a good lock makes the sport much more fun. Below is a Jim Chambers large Siler lock. It has made up for a lot of rookie mistakes.

 

[Africa58double]

Ode to the T/C

I’m newer to the Flintlock, So take this post with a grain of black powder.

I’ve seen my brother hit 80 yard bullseyes without a single issue in his T/C Hawken .50 Flintlock offhand for years. He didn’t ever
get it tuned or adjusted in any way and his is the older model lock. All along as I transitioned from unmentionable muzzleloaders to cap locks…

I then Decided to get my own, and I went With a older T/C also- a Renegade.Both mine and my brothers have the older Locks. I took mine to a local shop, got some tuning done to it and it sparks very well.

Yep- I’m aware there are expensive fine tuned beautiful Flintlock rifles that are truly amazing in every way…. yet I went with a nice entry level T/C and I’m glad I did.

Maybe becouse I’m a novice to the flintlock rifle, I’m unaware of all the problems the T/C can have- yet I haven’t seen many at all. Like a few have said “Learn to maintain the Rocklock” and you can have a reliable rifle- don’t need a $2k custom for that. It is one of my favorite rifles. I can see the reason so many like theflintlocks

 

[frankie]

I am a novice with only a few months' flint experience, but even I know a good lock makes the sport much more fun. Below is a Jim Chambers large Siler lock. It has made up for a lot of rookie mistakes.
View attachment 123693
View attachment 123694

I got to try it. thanks

 

[frankie]

Ode to the T/C

I’m newer to the Flintlock, So take this post with a grain of black powder.

I’ve seen my brother hit 80 yard bullseyes without a single issue in his T/C Hawken .50 Flintlock offhand for years. He didn’t ever
get it tuned or adjusted in any way and his is the older model lock. All along as I transitioned from unmentionable muzzleloaders to cap locks…

I then Decided to get my own, and I went With a older T/C also- a Renegade.Both mine and my brothers have the older Locks. I took mine to a local shop, got some tuning done to it and it sparks very well.

Yep- I’m aware there are expensive fine tuned beautiful Flintlock rifles that are truly amazing in every way…. yet I went with a nice entry level T/C and I’m glad I did.

Maybe becouse I’m a novice to the flintlock rifle, I’m unaware of all the problems the T/C can have- yet I haven’t seen many at all. Like a few have said “Learn to maintain the Rocklock” and you can have a reliable rifle- don’t need a $2k custom for that. It is one of my favorite rifles. I can see the reason so many like theflintlocksView attachment 123706

Thanks for the advice

 

[hanshi]

Flintlocks simply take more attention - sort of like one's special girl - rather than the mechanical load-cap-shoot of percussions. I got into flintlocks some 53 years ago. There is a learning curve but it's not at all difficult to master. If you are conscientious with it a good flintlock will will be virtually as reliable as a percussion. I've hunted with flintlocks in mist, fog, sprinkling rain and frog chokers without a FTF. Nearly all problems with flintlock reliability can be traced back to the flint itself. Keep it knapped sharp and it'll be good to go. I've had flints grudgingly give 4 shots and others over 100 shots by keeping them sharp. Normally I average (+ or -) 25 shots before the flints need scraping or knapping. So by reading the condition and caring for the flint it's not uncommon to eventually get 50 to 70 shots average from one.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Im thinking of buying a flintlock rifle. Are they dependable shooters? How many shots on average can one shoot using the same piece if flint?

Contrary to what folks generally say, a flintlock is less reliable. That is a fact. For the simple fact that a percussion gun only has one real variable: the cap. A flintlock has more variables. The ultimate in "no chance of failure" is a modern single shot or bolt action using factory ammo. The opposite of said ultimate is a flintlock or matchlock. I have a custom gun with a tuned lock. But if the flint becomes worn it will flash with no bang. Caplocks don't do that. They may have a failure in the cap, but I have never had a caplock fail.

Now... you should buy a flintlock, but not because it is more reliable or anything like that. It's simply the most fun on planet earth. It is the best combination of grace, function, and organic reality one can shoot.

Buy one and love all that is flawed and fantastic about it.

 

[frankie]

Contrary to what folks generally say, a flintlock is less reliable. That is a fact. For the simple fact that a percussion gun only has one real variable: the cap. A flintlock has more variables. The ultimate in "no chance of failure" is a modern single shot or bolt action using factory ammo. The opposite of said ultimate is a flintlock or matchlock. I have a custom gun with a tuned lock. But if the flint becomes worn it will flash with no bang. Caplocks don't do that. They may have a failure in the cap, but I have never had a caplock fail.

Now... you should buy a flintlock, but not because it is more reliable or anything like that. It's simply the most fun on planet earth. It is the best combination of grace, function, and organic reality one can shoot.

Buy one and love all that is flawed and fantastic about it.

very well said and I liked the last sentence. thanks cattywompuss. Now I really want one.

 

[frankie]

Flintlocks simply take more attention - sort of like one's special girl - rather than the mechanical load-cap-shoot of percussions. I got into flintlocks some 53 years ago. There is a learning curve but it's not at all difficult to master. If you are conscientious with it a good flintlock will will be virtually as reliable as a percussion. I've hunted with flintlocks in mist, fog, sprinkling rain and frog chokers without a FTF. Nearly all problems with flintlock reliability can be traced back to the flint itself. Keep it knapped sharp and it'll be good to go. I've had flints grudgingly give 4 shots and others over 100 shots by keeping them sharp. Normally I average (+ or -) 25 shots before the flints need scraping or knapping. So by reading the condition and caring for the flint it's not uncommon to eventually get 50 to 70 shots average from one.

Thanks Hanshi