Flintlocks and Black Powder

[Crow-Feather]

4f is far to good to be used in just the pan!

And the fish, seeing the bait just above him slowly ascends to the bait ready to strike. Wham, 4f goes to the bottom in the belly of the 3f bass.

 

[Des52]

I have used 4F in my .36 rifles with good results one a flint and one percussion. Also have used it in my .36 1851s. Just use a little less than 3F. Don't use it on real humid days. I also use 3F on humid days for priming instead of 4F. I have used 1f for prime with the Brown Bess and it worked when I forgot my prime powder.

 

[Cattywompuss]

I don't have deep enough pockets to use 4f anywhere except the pan. 3f is small enough for all my applications. On the day I win the lottery(that I don't play) I will start burning 4f for main charges. I can see it being useful in a tiny .36 or smaller rifle though.

 

[morehops52]

I'm new to flintlocks and have been watching posts about powder. I see comments on 3FG and 4FG being used in the pans. Is this just a matter of shooter preference or gun preference?

Thanks in advance
Terry

As you've read here: shooter preference. I've always used 4F in the pan. But hunting in wet weather had me cleaning out the pan and drying it every half hour. I learnred here that switching to 3F in the field can keep pan dryer longer.

 

[Jim Evans]

4 F is to be used as a Pan Primer, Not a main charge. By using 4F as a main charge could lead to damage to you weapon and your self, just look it up.
For those of you saying to use it as a main charge , Please show me that in writing ,by a Black Powder Expert, not some back yard shooter.
And as far as cost of Powder I pay the same for a pound no matter what F grade it is , the only thing I see in the price is in different manufacture have different price and the store you buy it from.
So if you are using just 4F as a main charge ,PLEASE STOP and quit telling other people to use it.

 

[Jim Evans]

I have used 4F in my .36 rifles with good results one a flint and one percussion. Also have used it in my .36 1851s. Just use a little less than 3F. Don't use it on real humid days. I also use 3F on humid days for priming instead of 4F. I have used 1f for prime with the Brown Bess and it worked when I forgot my prime powder.

I would not do this.

 

[French Colonial]

Don't use 4F you'll blow yourself up
Don't blow down the barrel you'll shoot yourself
Don't buy your son a BB gun he will shoot his eye out

And knives can be sharp

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

4 F is to be used as a Pan Primer, Not a main charge. By using 4F as a main charge could lead to damage to you weapon and your self, just look it up.
For those of you saying to use it as a main charge , Please show me that in writing ,by a Black Powder Expert, not some back yard shooter.
And as far as cost of Powder I pay the same for a pound no matter what F grade it is , the only thing I see in the price is in different manufacture have different price and the store you buy it from.
So if you are using just 4F as a main charge ,PLEASE STOP and quit telling other people to use it.

#40
"BP of a particular formulation gives off the same volume of gas in relation to it's weight, regardless of corn size. Since Powder granules burn from the outside, the more surface area a charge has, the faster that volume of gas is released. Smaller granulations have more surface area, so the pressure buildup is faster with fine powders (that makes them good for short barreled guns). The only thing you have to worry about with finer granulations is higher breech pressures. As long as you are careful, you can develop loadings that will work fine, regardless of granulation."

 

[Britsmoothy]

4 F is to be used as a Pan Primer, Not a main charge. By using 4F as a main charge could lead to damage to you weapon and your self, just look it up.
For those of you saying to use it as a main charge , Please show me that in writing ,by a Black Powder Expert, not some back yard shooter.
And as far as cost of Powder I pay the same for a pound no matter what F grade it is , the only thing I see in the price is in different manufacture have different price and the store you buy it from.
So if you are using just 4F as a main charge ,PLEASE STOP and quit telling other people to use it.

Please submit explicit warnings by manufacturers to support your command?
Please submit evidence of evidence of damage or injury from using 4f as a main charge ( I have been asking this for years and so far none, zero, zilch has been submitted. Please be the first!).
Waiting in earnest.

 

[jackpine54]

Please submit explicit warnings by manufacturers to support your command?
Please submit evidence of evidence of damage or injury from using 4f as a main charge ( I have been asking this for years and so far none, zero, zilch has been submitted. Please be the first!).
Waiting in earnest.

Yes but an old guy told me the he heard from his brother in law's cousin..... Besides it's just common knowledge....
And on and on, but never an ounce of proof. Very peculiar that going from Fg to FFg to FFFg in the same barrel is perfectly acceptable, but one more F will be disaster.
I'll go back to my cave now.

 

[toot]

DO NOT use 4f for a main charge, priming only. The pressure spike with 4f is going to create a dangerous, possibly destructive, condition.

why do people use it as main charge in a 31, or 36 CAL, revolver with out any problem? just courious? have you heard of this practice?

 

[Stone]

Yes but an old guy told me the he heard from his brother in law's cousin..... Besides it's just common knowledge....
And on and on, but never an ounce of proof. Very peculiar that going from Fg to FFg to FFFg in the same barrel is perfectly acceptable, but one more F will be disaster.
I'll go back to my cave now.

I am really enjoying this thread. I love it when people are absolutely convinced of something because they heard it said ....... It's like the raging debate about bullets ricocheting. People see a tracer round go sideways and they think that all bullets ricochet when in fact the bullet didn't go sideways, it was just the pyrotechnic charge that dislodged from the bullet.

 

[Jim Evans]

Please submit explicit warnings by manufacturers to support your command?
Please submit evidence of evidence of damage or injury from using 4f as a main charge ( I have been asking this for years and so far none, zero, zilch has been submitted. Please be the first!).
Waiting in earnest.

Now eat your words.

 

[Britsmoothy]

View attachment 112329

That is not evidence of damage or harm.
Other members have submitted photographs of old cans of goex with no such instruction.
On your photograph the can does not state ; DO NOT USE AS MAIN CHARGE, does it?

 

[Jim Evans]

That is not evidence of damage or harm.
Other members have submitted photographs of old cans of goex with no such instruction.
On your photograph the can does not state ; DO NOT USE AS MAIN CHARGE, does it?

What is so hard to understand "USE FOR PRIMING POWDER ONLY"?

Show me some Manufacture Loading data where 4F is used as a MAIN CHARGE. If you can.

 

[Jim Evans]

That is not evidence of damage or harm.
Other members have submitted photographs of old cans of goex with no such instruction.
On your photograph the can does not state ; DO NOT USE AS MAIN CHARGE, does it?

This is from Swiss Powder.
Is there anything else I need to prove to you?

 

[Stone]

Lawyers say a lot of really dumb things.

Fifty uears ago, your car owners manual explained how to set the valve timing, now it will tell you not to drink the battery acid.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

What is so hard to understand "USE FOR PRIMING POWDER ONLY"?

Show me some Manufacture Loading data where 4F is used as a MAIN CHARGE. If you can.

E er

What is so hard to understand "USE FOR PRIMING POWDER ONLY"?

Show me some Manufacture Loading data where 4F is used as a MAIN CHARGE. If you can.

The original Lyman reloading manual comes to mind...

 

[Brokennock]

4 F is to be used as a Pan Primer, Not a main charge. By using 4F as a main charge could lead to damage to you weapon and your self, just look it up.
For those of you saying to use it as a main charge , Please show me that in writing ,by a Black Powder Expert, not some back yard shooter.
And as far as cost of Powder I pay the same for a pound no matter what F grade it is , the only thing I see in the price is in different manufacture have different price and the store you buy it from.
So if you are using just 4F as a main charge ,PLEASE STOP and quit telling other people to use it.

Why don't you prove it is dangerous?
Prove that it is dangerous with a properly developed load. Not, matching grain for grain with another granulation.
We have been asking for proof for a long time. None has come forth. None.
Not, "so and so is an expert and says so." What proof did they publish or provide.
Where is this long string of guns blown up by using a reduced load of 4f as a main charge.

PLEASE STOP and quit telling other people to use it.

Who are you to tell anyone to stop saying anything?!
No is telling anyone to use it, we are only saying, it is possible to use it. Possible to use it with load development just lake anything else.
Go from 2f to 3f, reduce the starting load, most say by about 10%.
Go from 3f to 4f,,,,, reduce the starting load, just like 1f to 2f or 2f to 3f.
A picture on a can or bottle, a legal disclaimer based on a lawyer saying, " "CYA not everyone is smart enough to reduce their magnumitis 120 grain load when switching powder granulation," is not proof.

 

[Brokennock]

Now eat your words.

View attachment 112329

How is that proof of anything other than that lawyers are involved?
Show me it is dangerous..show me this list of blown up guns and carnage from 4f as a main charge. Show me lab destruction tests of blown barrels.

Please, give us real proof. Please, something other than someone else's "say so" or legal disclaimers.