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Fooling with a Ruger Old Army

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mec

45 Cal.
Joined
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My memories and resentment of the Old Army both go back almost to the inception of it in 1973. A few years after it came out, a dude showed up at the local percussion revolver match with one of these tricked out with a one pound trigger and snatched first prize away from me and my CVA 58 Remington. These things pitched the old black powder matches in to an equipment race. Pretty soon the choice became, get an old army or, quit in disgust. These meets are not nearly as popular as they used to be.

The Old Army is not a replica of anything or a relic of any time. Looked at independently though, it has a certain charm all its own and one very big time practical rason de etre ( a little frenchy-frog talk there.} I think I'll save that for last.
oldarmyload.jpg

An Internet/ shooting gathering good buddy sent me one of these to elve and I checked it out today with a rip-roaring false start and then the sort of performance you might expect from the ruger. My first notion was that since the chambers held nine more grains of powder (struck off level) than my Colt and Remington copies, It would perform very well with substantially heavier charges. Reasonable, since my replicas respond well to full loads and substantial compression with Pyrodex or fffg.

So, I loaded up with a cylinder extremely full of .457" balls over a compressed 45 grains of Swiss fffg. Visions of ballistic sugar plums danced in my head as the first 6 chambers went across the screens at 1159 fps/ 66 fps spread and seemed to be hitting well enough down range for what I was doing- Shooting two handed over the sky screens. The same volume of Pyrodex P did 1267 but sprawled out at 211 fps extreme spread. Temperatures ranged across the 70s.

The bad part came when I sat down and tried to shoot some groups at 60 feet. They spasticated all over the target with five to seven inch spreads. I started working backwards and managed a 4" group with 40grain/equivalent of pyrodex-still not good and I didn't bother chronographing it. Guns and loads that throw smooth-bore patterns are not interesting regardless of power level.

The goodness set in at 35 grains of Swiss or Pyrodex. and the figures in the picture show that The extreme spreads were well managed and the foot poundage of energy is in the range of .45 Acp Ball and the common standard pressure 9mm loads.

This analogy holds up pretty well for the bullet loads too as they are spanning the 300+ foot pound range. The chambers would hold the Lee bullet and 30 grains of powder but 35 was too much. The best news was that once I had dropped into the 30-35 grain charges, accuracy set in. The largest group was an even two inches and the smallest was 1.5." with the bullets surprisingly, shooting as good as the round ball. These bullets were cast in a lee mold and came out a bit bigger than the advertised .452 diameter cast from wheelweights. Since the chambers on this OA measure .451-2, they gripped the walls well enough to avoid bullet creep.

http://www.gunpix.com/gallery/Muzzleloaders_and_Blackpowder/oldarmyleebp.jpg
Importantly, The Ruger is about as reliable as a caplock can be- which is to say, not quite as reliable as a cartridge revolver but a lot more reliable than a lot of the half-a semi autos people leave in their night stands or carry around with them. I shot about 100 rounds with no cap fragment jams and only a couple of cap fragment "Hesitations". I cleaned the bore between every cyliderfull but paid almost no attention to the base pin or other surfaces. The revolver never gummed up from black powder residue. I had one failure to detonate a cap on first strike. The adjustable sights, screwed all the way down brought the groups to center just above the sight picture at 60 feet. The bullet loads shoot maybe an inch and a half above the balls.

Now for its Raison de Etre, or whatever. In so far as the Federal Government is concerned, it is not a firearm. Under the penal code of the State of Texas and a number of other jurisdictions, it is neither a firearm or a handgun since it does not fire fixed cartridges. This makes purchase, ownership, transportation of it relatively free of restrictions. Some states go ahead and classify them as firearms with all restrictions applicable but you can still shoot them in England and if Texas regards it as a "replica of a pre 1898 firearm that does not fire fixed cartridges", you could probably carry it down the street. {You'd get arrested, of course, but you might beat the rap.}
 
Here in the UK these pistols are very popular, myself though I have a Euroarms 1858 Target s/s. The Ruger is an excellent pistol, however I went for the Euroarms as it is based more on the original and I liked that.
 
I'm right with you on that. All of the one's I own are traditional -(this one is a loaner) I believe that Euroarms are made by Pietta. Can you tell me if you are able to get spare parts in your area? There are several sources for Uberti revolvers here but it's catch as catch can for the Pietta revolvers.
 
I have shot the Ruger Old Army before, not a bad shootin' iron...

I didn't care for the stainless version, but they are strong guns...
 
Howdy Folks,
Euroarms and Pietta are two different companys. The grip frame on the 1858 Euroarms is smaller than the Pietta, good if you have a small hand like I have.
Lee
 
Thanks for the information about Euroarms. They seem to get less attention than Uberti and Pietta-not a whole lot in print about them.
 
I am sure we're all thankful for the loading data. I did some net searches and didn't come up with too much on what the ROA can do.

That gun is on my shopping list for the spring.
 
Here in Iowa there is no legal distinction in state law between a front loader or a breech loader. Same laws to acquire, same laws to transport, same laws to carry. The only distinction is you can't use a breech loading long gun in muzzle loading deer season. Actually, this makes sense, provided the gun laws are reasonable to start with. They cold be worse than they are here in Iowa.

Oops! There is one distinction, breech loading rifles are limited to 50 caliber.
 
I got out today with some 190 grain Buffalo Bullets that came in. They are sized .457 specifically for this revolver. They are covered with slick grease which I suspect contains moly. they have a round nose aspect that lets them fit into the ram for straight seating and a pretty long full diameter bearing surface.

Finding the right load was kind of the reverse of what I saw with the ball loads. It was also amazing in that the most accurate and consistent and powerful load was with H777- a powder that usually hasn't done well for me in the upper velocity ranges. This time, I was careful to avoid compressing the charges as much as its loft will allow and seem to have hit the optimum load at the 40 grain blackpowder calibrated scoop. The calculated energy is above that of the factory 45 Colt or the guesses they make about the performance of the old black powder colt loads and even higher than the 250gr/900fps loads favored by a lot of .45 Colt shooters for hunting.
oldarmyh777.jpg

I don't know if this load will do this every time- small sample you know. This revolver has shown its individuality in regard to optimum loads and I would not be surprised if every Old Army owner doesn't have to work up loads rather than just getting them out of the book.
 
I have settled on 28 grains of Goex fff and the lee conical's. I like the Goex better then the pryodex, I think I get quicker inition.
I have a question for all of you.
Did Ruger change from using 10 size nipples in their pistols to 11 size nipples?
I own 2, one is a very old one made in the early 70's the other one is newer made in late 90's.
The older one needs 10's while the newer one fits 11's fine.
 
mec where did you get the grips for the ruger i saw it last night and bought one today now i need those stag horn grips there sooooo nice thanks vinny
 
Those have been on several of my blackhawk /single six frames. I've had them for years-bought back before the stag embargo and the big time price increase. They've been pictured in American Handgunner and several webzines and never fail to cause more excitement than the revolvers they are on. On the down side, like most old sets of stag grips, the panels don't match at all. I used a .5" counter sink to implant the ruger medalions.
 
mine is from 1993 Number tens fit perfectly. All of my percussion pistols and revolvers have fliers in with them saying to use Number eleven caps. Number tens work better on every single one of them.
 
so can thay be found on the netor what option do i have iHAVE to have a pare it will kill me not to find them will aney black hawk grip fit throw me a bone here mec vinny
 
what you usually see now are fake stags- most of which look fake. There is another option- Eagle Elk Stag which looks good in the pictures. You may find that Eagle or Ajax has a few remaining stags on hand or you may find them at a gunshow.

One warning about Eagle Grips- the pictures they use often look much better than the actual product. You also have to ride them closely to keep them from loosing your order.
 
I bought my Old Army last year. Instruction book indicated the use of #10 caps, but they weren't even close to going on. Tried #11 and they were better but still would not fully seat and gave some misfires. The Remington #11 caps are just a little bit bigger that other #11 caps and they work fine but I still use a little wooden push stick to make sure they are fully seated. I'm thinking about buying a set of aftermarket #10 nipples for this revolver as everything else I have uses #10.
 
patchknife
where do you find aftermarket #10 nipples for an old army?
What you describe is exactly what happens on my 1990's pistol
 
Well, that's a good question. just checked The Possibles Shop and Track of the Wolf. They both have nipples for the Old Army ( 12x28 ) but I just noticed that they are all for #11 caps.
So much for that idea.
 
If the #11's are too tight, why not just chuck each nipple in your drill and take them down a little on a grinding stone so the 11's fit right? Just be sure to keep the taper, and go a little at a time and then try a cap on them until you get them all right. Shouldn't take that long to do.
 
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