Foot Pounds

[leadhoarder]

Twist rate will affect the recoil impulse but the difference is likely insignificant. I am not sure of the dynamics of it using gunpowder in a muzzleloader but the modern cotton burners build more pressure with a faster twist all else being equal as there is more resistance encountered pushing a bullet down a fast twist bore than there is down a slow twist bore. Higher pressure means more muzzle energy and possibly more pressure to provide a jet affect. Again the difference is likely small and not of any consequence but the physics say that there will be a difference.

 

[52Bore]

A ‘hard cast’ heavy conical, like wheel weights, will kick harder than a pure soft lead cast one.. I’ve experienced it. The shot of your shotgun is not a solid, add cushion wads?, plus the loads surface area is 2x that of the rifle and it’s corresponding powder column is 1/2 the rifle in length; less recoil.
Twist rate torques the rifle.

 

[64Springer]

Let me put it this way if you had a spring that barely fit a 30" barrel and you straightened that spring out it would, lets say approx, it would be three times the length. A rifled barreled bullet would go three times the smooth bore in that distance in that 30's" thus more recoil. And, centrifugal force requires more friction and energy. All I know a heavier gun should recoil less usually. Same grain of bullet and same grain of powder and the lighter smooth bore has less recoil. I would guess the smooth bore bullet would come out of the barrel faster everything else being the same, in other words more velocity.

Tell us more about that 500 grain .45 caliber bullet.

I'd like to take a look at it.

Where did you find it?

My cast 250 grain .454 caliber bullets are .675 long. That means your 500 grain bullet would have to be 1.35 inches long.

Thanks.

 

[tenngun]

Let me put it this way if you had a spring that barely fit a 30" barrel and you straightened that spring out it would, let’s say approx, it would be three times the length. A rifled barreled bullet would go three times the smooth bore in that distance in that 30's" thus more recoil. And, centrifugal force requires more friction and energy. All I know a heavier gun should recoil less usually. Same grain of bullet and same grain of powder and the lighter smooth bore has less recoil. I would guess the smooth bore bullet would come out of the barrel faster everything else being the same, in other words more velocity.

A rifle may produce more revoke, but not because of rate of twist.
A heavy projectile will have more inertia to overcome. Friction with the barrel wall will hold the projectile back, while that retardant effect is going on there is time for the pressure to increase, when the weight gets moving higher pressure can drive it faster terminals
The weight- mass and the velocity of the ejected are the only two components of raw recoil.
How that recoil is absorbed are function of the gun weight, and size of the butt, and even the stance.
Centrifugal force isn’t a force, it’s just a function of acceleration in a different direction, a turn or a spin.
While friction of a fast turn rate can impart torque to the gun. Recoil will only come from how fast and how massive the stuff leaving the bore is

 

[Don Steele]

Here's a 2007 article from Outdoor Life describing the equation to calculate recoil energy:
https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/guns/rifles/2007/09/calculate-recoil-energy/There's no provision in the equation for gun fit, twist rate, etc, etc. It's just the physics of mass and motion.
As previously pointed out, there's a difference between the recoil impulse generated by a particular rifle and load and the recoil energy perceived by a shooter. That's where factors like stock shape, stock fit and technique come in to play.
(64Springer..I cast a 45 caliber, 500 gn bullet for my 45/70's and .458 Win mag. it's 1.33" long.)

 

[Tumbledown]

Let me put it this way if you had a spring that barely fit a 30" barrel and you straightened that spring out it would, lets say approx, it would be three times the length. A rifled barreled bullet would go three times the smooth bore in that distance in that 30's" thus more recoil. And, centrifugal force requires more friction and energy. All I know a heavier gun should recoil less usually. Same grain of bullet and same grain of powder and the lighter smooth bore has less recoil. I would guess the smooth bore bullet would come out of the barrel faster everything else being the same, in other words more velocity.

The difference is in the bore size. As I stated earlier, the heavier gun has a smaller volume per inch, which results in a faster spike in pressure.

As for distance within the barrel, rifling does not increase that. The bullet is not traveling along the grooves, they are imparting spin along its axis.

 

[64Springer]

Here's a 2007 article from Outdoor Life describing the equation to calculate recoil energy:
https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/guns/rifles/2007/09/calculate-recoil-energy/There's no provision in the equation for gun fit, twist rate, etc, etc. It's just the physics of mass and motion.
As previously pointed out, there's a difference between the recoil impulse generated by a particular rifle and load and the recoil energy perceived by a shooter. That's where factors like stock shape, stock fit and technique come in to play.
(64Springer..I cast a 45 caliber, 500 gn bullet for my 45/70's and .458 Win mag. it's 1.33" long.)

I had the same .459 bullet for a 45-70 Govt. Trapdoor.

But I've never seen a traditional .45 caliber muzzle loading bullet that weighed 500 grains.

I'd like to hear more about it. Type of rifle. Twist rate. Etc.

 

[Terrier]

My 45 caliper target rifle just kicks my butt when shooting with a 500 grain bullet pushed by 70 grains of Swiss 2F powder. The shotgun I just made shoots 1 1/8 oz which equates to the same weight as the bullet and is not nearly as bad.. Is there a conversion chart of any kind that shows recoil of different rifling twists.

Why on earth are you shooting a 500 grain projectile in a 45 caliber ML? That's 75% heavier than a roundball and just positively masochistic..

Inquiring minds want to know WHYYYYYY?

 

[OldSmoky1967]

My 45 caliper target rifle just kicks my butt when shooting with a 500 grain bullet pushed by 70 grains of Swiss 2F powder. The shotgun I just made shoots 1 1/8 oz which equates to the same weight as the bullet and is not nearly as bad.. Is there a conversion chart of any kind that shows recoil of different rifling twists.

That is a heavy bullet and swiss is about 10-15 % more powerful than other powders, like Goex. Just FYI, my Minie balls for my .58 Enfield are 505 Grains. So you are shooting a pretty heavy load. With a patched round ball at 50yards my load would be 55 grains Goex. But if you are shooting a hunting load, ok.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

My 460 S&W takes a 300 grain hard cast bullet. With a reduced powder charge it still pushes me into the next zip code when I pull the trigger.

Nature of the beast.

Where did you find a 500 grain projectile for a .45 caliber traditional muzzleloader?

That bullet has to be twice as long as it is wide. Doesn't matter what you do. You're going to feel that.

Yes

 

[mushka]

Faster rifling stabilizes heavier projectiles, slower rifling stabilizes lighter projectiles. Has little to do with velocity. You won't feel a heavier or lighter recoil impulse due to rifling.

 

[TFoley]

Tell us more about that 500 grain .45 caliber bullet.

I'd like to take a look at it.

Where did you find it?

My cast 250 grain .454 caliber bullets are .675 long. That means your 500 grain bullet would have to be 1.35 inches long.

Thanks.

Here's a 600gr .451cal bullet. Courtesy of Messrs Joe Polisar and Dave Corbin.

 

[Mike in FL]

Stock shape.

 

[Eterry]

I believe there are many factors and stock design has a lot to do with it. I had a partial sporterized M1917 '06 and a Savage 110 '06. Both similar weight, the 1917 kicked my head off. My gunsmith friend told me the 1917 stock was way too straight. I sold it, not knowing what I had.
Another thing, how tight a load is in the rifle? I was casting 405 grain Lee bullets for my 45-70, shooting them as cast. They almost gave me a flinch. A friend miked them and they were .463. He said it was like a snake swallowing a Goose egg.
I changed to jacketed bullets and the recoil dropped considerably.
So on top of stock design I think bullet size matters.

 

[Eterry]

And weight. I shoot a lot of Big Bore DGR rifles, from 375 h&h to 460 Weatherby. The difference between a 9LB 416 Rigby and one 11 lbs is dramatic. The 9 pounder is brutal, the 11 is manageable. My 416 is 10 lbs, and needs another pound.
I know the BPCR shooters in large caliber say fast twist makes the gun slap your cheek. So that's a consideration.

So I guess there are several factors that create recoil. I've read many magazine articles about this.

 

[necchi]

Is there a conversion chart of any kind that shows recoil of different rifling twists.

https://bisonballistics.com/calculators/recoil

 

[Eterry]

Here's a 600gr .451cal bullet. Courtesy of Messrs Joe Polisar and Dave Corbin.

Sir, your bullet didn't upload.

 

[Eterry]

https://bisonballistics.com/calculators/recoil

Holy cow!! The 460 Weatherby has 112 Ft/Lbs.
Thanks for that Neechi

 

[jimairwin]

My 45 caliper target rifle just kicks my butt when shooting with a 500 grain bullet pushed by 70 grains of Swiss 2F powder. The shotgun I just made shoots 1 1/8 oz which equates to the same weight as the bullet and is not nearly as bad.. Is there a conversion chart of any kind that shows recoil of different rifling twists.

A gun's geometry greatly affects felt recoil. I shoot 45-70 rifles using 530 grain bullets and up to 85 grains 2fg GOEX. I also shoot shotguns. Have you tried shooting your shotgun with heavier charges? Not "soft" by any stretch. But not too bad, either. I have other rifles that don't fit me all that well that give me a beating. Most shotguns fit me OK, strangely enough. I don't think twist rate makes any difference.

 

[TFoley]

Sir, your bullet didn't upload.

Hmmm, encore un fois................