formula for powder charge

[coloradoclyde]

that will not have to be tweaked. In other words, will be the perfect load the first and every shot?

None do....they all have to be tweaked....Even your own formula.
As you have said so yourself.

it is intended for a starting load that will get you in the ballpark and has to be adjusted up or down according to your needs.

I'm done!...

:surrender:

 

[azmntman]

Colorado, If what you are saying is true, then I am open for advice. What exactly is your method of taking a brand new muzzleloader and come up with the perfect load that will give the best accuracy and power, that will not have to be tweaked. In other words, will be the perfect load the first and every shot?

He's done. What I do is start with a load equal to the caliber (.45 and up). Shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot add 5gra.....see? When yer done you take the best group and use that amount of powder from then on. Then you start using different patches. repeat with different patch material. Save the best patch material group and use only that patch material. Now you start trying different lubes for the patch....WARNING..there are 8-9 million different "best" lubes so could be time consuming. Repeat and then you use the best powder charge, the best patch material and the best lube as per the best groups, Now you can try a few different caps. NOW YER DONE!

This is the way I do it and is the very best way to do it. Others may have a different way but my way is best. So do it my way. Others have "ways" but not the best way like my way. Thank you....

 

[Billnpatti]

Colorado, If what you are saying is true, then I am open for advice. What exactly is your method of taking a brand new muzzleloader and come up with the perfect load that will give the best accuracy and power, that will not have to be tweaked. In other words, will be the perfect load the first and every shot?

He's done. What I do is start with a load equal to the caliber (.45 and up). Shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot add 5gra.....see? When yer done you take the best group and use that amount of powder from then on. Then you start using different patches. repeat with different patch material. Save the best patch material group and use only that patch material. Now you start trying different lubes for the patch....WARNING..there are 8-9 million different "best" lubes so could be time consuming. Repeat and then you use the best powder charge, the best patch material and the best lube as per the best groups, Now you can try a few different caps. NOW YER DONE!

This is the way I do it and is the very best way to do it. Others may have a different way but my way is best. So do it my way. Others have "ways" but not the best way like my way. Thank you....

Yep, Rick, that is pretty much dead on advice. It is very close to what Dutch says to do. Not exactly but pretty close. Do yourself a favor and get a copy of Dutch's accuracy system www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com It will save you a lot of time and expense of doing your own experiments. Why reinvent the wheel when Dutch has done it for you?

 

[coloradoclyde]

What I do is start with a load equal to the caliber (.45 and up). Shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot add 5gra.....see? When yer done you take the best group and use that amount of powder from then on. Then you start using different patches. repeat with different patch material. Save the best patch material group and use only that patch material. Now you start trying different lubes for the patch....WARNING..there are 8-9 million different "best" lubes so could be time consuming. Repeat and then you use the best powder charge, the best patch material and the best lube as per the best groups, Now you can try a few different caps. NOW YER DONE!

This is the way I do it and is the very best way to do it. Others may have a different way but my way is best. So do it my way. Others have "ways" but not the best way like my way. Thank you....

Good answer! :thumbsup:
This is essentially what Mr. Flintock describes when he explains how his magical formula works...Your way is a good method and there is no need to apply an erroneous formula to establish a starting point.
The magical formula implies that there are shortcuts.....
I think we all know that isn't true.

The relationship between "best power and accuracy" is ultimately decided by the user...

 

[mooman76]

I also start with 1 gr per caliber and 1/2 for small calibers and pistols and work up from there. That's my formula. :rotf:

Some start with 1 1/2 and some use an old method of placing the ball in a cupped hand, and then pouring powder over it until it just covers. Of coarse that depends on you hand and how much you cup it. They all get you a starting point but the work still has to be done to get you to the best load possible.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'm not real good at my ciphers...but I can read real well especially owners manuals, powder manufacturer loading data, and barrel manufacturer data.....
Who needs a formula that doesn't calculate something that isn't already published?..... :haha:

 

[Toomuch51]

Colorado, If what you are saying is true, then I am open for advice. What exactly is your method of taking a brand new muzzleloader and come up with the perfect load that will give the best accuracy and power, that will not have to be tweaked. In other words, will be the perfect load the first and every shot?

There is no such thing, as each rifle is an individual and will have it's own "sweet" load.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Colorado, If what you are saying is true, then I am open for advice. What exactly is your method of taking a brand new muzzleloader and come up with the perfect load that will give the best accuracy and power, that will not have to be tweaked. In other words, will be the perfect load the first and every shot?

There is no such thing, as each rifle is an individual and will have it's own "sweet" load.

True, but if you have the same caliber and same brand of barrel or firearm, in most cases, if I have the same, my best load will probably be very close to yours. For example I have a couple of TC Hawkens in 50 caliber and both do pretty well with loads of 50 grains and 80 grains. Other brands I have with the same twist barrel are not bad with those loads either. So, as an example a 50 caliber with a shallow rifled barrel with 1 in 48 twist will probably be able to use those loads as a starting point with a ticking patch and either spit or some other grease lube and a .490 round ball. Will it cloverleaf at 50 yards? Maybe and maybe not, but I would bet it will shoot a decent starting group.

 

[azmntman]

Colorado, If what you are saying is true, then I am open for advice. What exactly is your method of taking a brand new muzzleloader and come up with the perfect load that will give the best accuracy and power, that will not have to be tweaked. In other words, will be the perfect load the first and every shot?

He's done. What I do is start with a load equal to the caliber (.45 and up). Shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot 5, add 5 grains and shoot add 5gra.....see? When yer done you take the best group and use that amount of powder from then on. Then you start using different patches. repeat with different patch material. Save the best patch material group and use only that patch material. Now you start trying different lubes for the patch....WARNING..there are 8-9 million different "best" lubes so could be time consuming. Repeat and then you use the best powder charge, the best patch material and the best lube as per the best groups, Now you can try a few different caps. NOW YER DONE!

This is the way I do it and is the very best way to do it. Others may have a different way but my way is best. So do it my way. Others have "ways" but not the best way like my way. Thank you....

Ok Ok...if ya dont do it my way get the Dutch System, his way is better than mine...BUT HIS IS THE ONLY ONE!!! :blah:

 

[meanmike8665]

Wait a minute, that is the way I work up a load. I thought my way was the best!

Michael :hatsoff:

 

[Dr5x]

AZ Mountain Man

I'm not certain by what you mean by "He's the Only One"/
If you were referring to me, I have to differ.
The very best method is when each shot lands right where you intended, consistently To my very great surprise there are apparently quite a few people doing stuff that never worked for me that do very well.
I think that I am more for the peoplwho about to give up< to me that's a tragedy, or to people who feel a need to maybe fine tune
The biggest mistake anyone can make is to sincerely believe you know it all. One of your fellow forum members who says he benefitted from my theories has gone on to LONG RANGE Muzzleloading and has left me waaay behind Had a few more years I would have loved to explore that


I recently learned how accurate crossbows are. and would like to have had the time to look into that.

When you quit learning you are beginning to to enter the down slide.

You're only old once, so take advantage of that opportunity before it goes away.

Dutch

 

[azmntman]

Dutch... my ENTIRE "my way" post was all in fun. I learn here about every day. In fact I learn so much I didnt know I cant find the time to try all the new stuff. All in fun my friend.

When I joined here I truly had NO IDEA the patch thickness let alone lube made much difference at all? Your system was filled with wisdom of years, much I knew most I didn't. Yes many other also help me out here. And as far as gettin old....we are RIGHT BEHIND YA :shake: My mid twenties son outta be about 8 by now :hmm:

 

[coloradoclyde]

When you quit learning you are beginning to to enter the down slide.

You're only old once, so take advantage of that opportunity before it goes away.

Dutch

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[kansas_volunteer]

Golly, I've been waiting, but it looks like no one has touched on the one true way to determine the best load. That is, lay a ball in the palm of your hand and pour powder over it until you have a pile deep enough to completely covere the ball. That amount powder is the best load. Or so they say.

 

[meanmike8665]

Yes, someone did. Moonman just a few post back. I use an adjustable powder measure and a scale, works good enough for me.
Michael

 

[Toomuch51]

Golly, I've been waiting, but it looks like no one has touched on the one true way to determine the best load. That is, lay a ball in the palm of your hand and pour powder over it until you have a pile deep enough to completely covere the ball. That amount powder is the best load. Or so they say.

It has been mentioned however it is a very inconsistent method at best not to mention it waste wa-a-ay too much powder.

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, a number of years ago a guy wrote a article in Muzzle Blasts about the "powder covering the ball in the palm of the hand" method.

He was wondering about how much powder that would really measure.
His main concern when he started this test was that using this method, possibly a dangerous powder load would be the result.

To make the test somewhat "real" he used his hand, his wife's hand and his daughters hand to hold several different size balls.

Each of them held the ball and he slowly poured the powder it just to the point of covering it.
He then measured the weight of the powder each one of their hands held.

I don't remember what the variation was or what the amount of powder was for each ball size but I do remember that the actual amount of powder poured out was a little less than the old, "one grain for each caliber" rule.

For instance, the method resulted in less than 45 grains for a .45 and less than 50 grains for a .50.

 

[Toomuch51]

For instance, the method resulted in less than 45 grains for a .45 and less than 50 grains for a .50.

I have never tried this method personally as I have reasoned it to be too inconsistent from on load to the next. While it is not a overly heavy charge it will still be very difficult to modify to obtain your most accurate load.

 

[Dr5x]

AZMountain Man
Although my name makes people think I am German it actually derives from Sculczewky which is Polish but was changed to the current spelling about 130 years ago.
The overwhelming part of my heritage is, however from my mother's which was German.
Being German if you are sending me something in humor, you explain that it is sent in humor or I will not pick up your intent.
The Germans first began using cartoons during WW I but they also added footnotes to those cartoons explain the humor intended
How could any group of people have a sense of humor and still go to war wearing helmets with a spike on the top.

I thought some Germans out there might get the ides that Thought my method was the ONLY one. .
It's not. but how people do well with a differing system is a puzzlement.

You have no idea how boring I can be, but I think you're getting the idea

Dutch

 

[nkbj]

Powder charge: Select the power level you want for the job and then learn how to tweak other variables to make it accurate.