Found a "Brown Bess".

[ord sgt]

There are 100's of Brown Bess on display at the armory in Williamsburg, Va.

 

[KABAR2]

If you are able to go back there ask if they could bring the gun out so you can photograph it....

From your photos I have no doubt it is an original without seeing it's full length it makes it hard to say if it is a late 2nd model or a 3rd model it has the long tail on the side plate of a 2nd model and the later lock of the 3rd model it may have a wrist plate (slight shadow)this may be a 1780's 2nd model depends on the length and number and style of the ramrod pipes.....

if you look at the condition of the musket and the type of wood used this is not a Japanese Bess.... it's an original.....

 

[Alden]

Ricky;
Nice sentiment, but be careful with execution. Museums keep the vast majority of their stuff hidden from public view. And many donations don't make it that far -- they are accumulated for periodic sales to raise cash. Museums are a business.

A loaner is great and preferred IMO as you can require it be on display and get it back for yourself or your estate and family. I have done this myself for special exhibits where the timeframe was certain and relatively short term -- people got to see it and I got to keep the stuff I like 'excpet for a few months or a couple of years, whatever. Regardless...

...be prepared to part forever with whatever you lend. Once it leaves your hands, regardless of intent, it is in someone elses hands and you may never get it back.

 

[rickystl]

Alden: Thank you very much for your comments. You brought up a couple points I never thought of. :hmm:
Thanks again. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Many Klatch]

I used to collect and repair old radios: the ones from 1915 to 1940's. After a while I got tired of messing with dusty old tubes and the 28 radios that I had took up a lot of room. Besides, I got hooked on the smell of blackpowder. So I donated them all to a local museum. I had to get them professionally appraised and inspected. I got a nice tax credit for the radios.

However when I go to the museum over 1/4 of the display is my old radios, but my name doesn't show up anywhere. The big name people that donated money to set the display up have their names out front, but the collectors that found and saved the radios are no where to be named.

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

Wish that old cannon could talk! Given where you found it, it could have quite a history. Some Mexican soldado may have dropped it at the seige of the Alamo, or maybe at the battle of San Jacinto. I believe the Bess was standard issue for the Mexican Army at that time.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Every known surviving Santanista musket I've ever seen, in the flesh or photos, is a post-1809 East India Pattern(sometimes mistakenly called 'third model' Brown Bess)British made musket with re-inforced cock. Each has had the lock ground flat forward of the cock and has been restamped with the Mexican 'eagle' holding a snake marking...in all cases, the "Tower" mark has been removed as well. The gun shown here definitely has the flat side plate with tail, typical of all SLP muskets runs.

Although it's known many captured muskets from the 1835 campaigns through the fracas at San Jacinto the next April were put to some service, the number estimates have always been confusing. The night after the battle, a few arm loads were tossed on a fire as wood was scarse, unlike today's battlefield park...and yes, it can be cold in Texas in April! The resulting discharge of many loaded muskets created a rather 'exciting' few minutes among the troops and the Mexican prisoners. The one known number was from Colonel George Washington Hockley from the Ordnance Departmetn dated 18 October, 1839, and reads in part:

"The present buildings occupied as the arsenal, and originally intended for the use of the Quarter Master General, were turned over to the Ordnance Department, the number [of arms, M.J.K.] injured by exposure alluded to, were then again put into good order, including upwards of eight hundred and fifty muskets exclusive of rifles; Yeagers and Sabers, have been issued from the arms remaining after the Campaign of 1836."

A couple noteworthy things in Hockley's comments are the "Yeagers and Sabers", a definite reference to the Baker Rifles with their large saber bayonets issued to the rifle companies(light infantry) in the Mexican army of that period.

The second is the inference that many of these captured weapons appear to have been in use three years later even though Texas had received "one thousand of muskets" from Tryon, M.1816 U.S. muskets made under contract...way more than even Mirabeau Buonaparte Lamar, Texas second president, could even issue out to his imagined army. :wink:

 

[mudd turtle]

And what is wrong with Grits for breakfast?

 

[azmntman]

with honey n butter its a meal for a king! :v

 

[rickystl]

Manny: Thanks for the additional insight. Much appreciated. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I believe it to be an original British 1756 or 1759 marine musket or militia musket.

dave

 

[vtbuck223]

Looks original to me as well.

 

[KABAR2]

A photo of the lock would tell all.... if it is a straight plate it's later.....

 

[F.G. Ford]

To Tengun,
You just can't take your eyes off'n them Yankees.
They mess things up some awful.
Fred ( from Canada )

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I am not sure what you mean by a "straight plate" but if you mean the banana shape is gone then your statement is not true. The banana plate was largely abandoned by the time of the 1756 long land musket.

dave

 

[JohnithGee]

I wish I could get back there. I have some buddies shooting a small film there, so I'll ask and see if they can hook up some more photos on their lunch.

 

[KABAR2]

Hi,
I am not sure what you mean by a "straight plate" but if you mean the banana shape is gone then your statement is not true. The banana plate was largely abandoned by the time of the 1756 long land musket.

dave

Yep.... :redface: your right....sometimes going from memory without references around to check can get you..... I do think it will be a later musket due to the style of cock...