Rogers rangers musket photos please?

[beyu]

lol lol lol. I am guessing that you were never in the military. I always love hearing these guys say things like “Well, if a drill sergeant got in my face, I’d give him what for.” What you’d do is stand there scared fecesless and try not to gain his attention. The very few know-it-alls were fun to watch get broken.

As to destroying the King’s property, a taste of the lash would alter your faulty thinking. You don’t own that weapon, the King does.

Err — actually, I was. Four years in the US Navy.

Pleading ignorance might not work, but I would try it anyway. Keep in mind, at that point I am still alive to make my plea. If I am dead, the issue is MOOT.

 

[sturmkatze]

Err — actually, I was. Four years in the US Navy.

Pleading ignorance might not work, but I would try it anyway. Keep in mind, at that point I am still alive to make my plea. If I am dead, the issue is MOOT.

I cat is not gonna care when it’s at your back. The point is they wouldn’t have let you do that and you wouldn’t have done it. Different times.

 

[sportster73hp]

What about a naval bess?? Aren’t they shorter?
For the rangers or Florida airgunner.

 

[FlinterNick]

What about a naval bess?? Aren’t they shorter?
For the rangers or Florida airgunner.

1730-1750 42-46”

1777 37-42”

 

[Dale Lilly]

 

[beyu]

I cat is not gonna care when it’s at your back. The point is they wouldn’t have let you do that and you wouldn’t have done it. Different times.

I don't claim to be especially knowledgeable about Rogers Rangers — even though they are local heroes to us here in New Hampshire, since Rogers and his men were from this state back when it was a colony, of course.

As far as I know, Robert Rogers was a very independent sort of fellow, and so were his men. I also know that many British Army officers considered them to be little more than an undisciplined rabble — and their quarters on Rogers Island (as it was known) was next door to a military hospital that was filled with Small Pox sufferers. The squalor the Rangers lived in was well known and was the subject of much amusement among many of the British.

I think it is unlikely that Rogers would have allowed his men to be flogged by the British for any infractions of THEIR regulations. Rogers would have handled discipline himself. Knowing the "stiff-necked" nature of New Hampshire people, I think a flogging would have resulted in the mass desertion of the Rangers.

https://www.military-history.org/feature/warrior-rogers-rangers.htm

 

[FlinterNick]

I don't claim to be especially knowledgeable about Rogers Rangers — even though they are local heroes to us here in New Hampshire, since Rogers and his men were from this state back when it was a colony, of course.

As far as I know, Robert Rogers was a very independent sort of fellow, and so were his men. I also know that many British Army officers considered them to be little more than an undisciplined rabble — and their quarters on Rogers Island (as it was known) was next door to a military hospital that was filled with Small Pox sufferers. The squalor the Rangers lived in was well known and was the subject of much amusement among many of the British.

I think it is unlikely that Rogers would have allowed his men to be flogged by the British for any infractions of THEIR regulations. Rogers would have handled discipline himself. Knowing the "stiff-necked" nature of New Hampshire people, I think a flogging would have resulted in the mass desertion of the Rangers.

https://www.military-history.org/feature/warrior-rogers-rangers.htm

This is a far fetched assumption you’re making to convince yourself that the rangers cut down British ordinance muskets. There is no basis to say they did this nor is there physical evidence or written records of which rogers did catalog.

However there are shortland brown Bess muskets marked queens rangers.

There are also correspondence showing the rangers used french muskets Dutch muskets and private purchase muskets.

 

[Daveboone]

Then you should join us!

http://www.jaegersbattalion.org/
Jaeger's Battalion is the oldest, and the largest, recreated Rogers' Rangers unit in the country. We have companies all over the US. One of the absolute best events is the July 4th weekend event at Old Fort Niagara!

I will have to look into it! Thanks!

 

[skwerleater]

Florida Airginner,
Here is a shortened long land repro bess next to a short land pattern repro bess. It’s definitely lighter and handier than than the full length barrel. It was cut off in one cut with the a hacksaw. Nothing else was moved or modified. It’s has a homemade front site.

 

[beyu]

This is a far fetched assumption you’re making to convince yourself that the rangers cut down British ordinance muskets. There is no basis to say they did this nor is there physical evidence or written records of which rogers did catalog.

However there are shortland brown Bess muskets marked queens rangers.

There are also correspondence showing the rangers used french muskets Dutch muskets and private purchase muskets.

NOT to beat a dead horse, but — I am not trying to convince myself or anyone else that ALL of the Rangers cut down their muskets, or even that SOME did. AND — you make an excellent point that some of them may have carried French, Dutch or privately purchased forearms. That is JUST EXACTLY what independent -minded men would do...

The Rangers were indeed a very independent minded group of men — keep in mind that almost all were experienced New Hampshire woodsmen — trappers, hunters, trackers, local Indian fighters and even scalp hunters when the colonies offered bounties. Those who wanted to cut down their muskets would do so if they saw an advantage. Probably most did not, but fear of The Cat would not enter into their thinking.

By the way, the great differences between the American colonists and the Red Coats born in England was brought into sharp focus during the French and Indian War. The Regulars were born into a society with a King and Queen and Lords and Ladies. They learned from birth about tugging their forelocks and saying "Yes, Your Lordship, and saving your presence, sir, but could I have another of those, sir?" They took flogging as — an expected punishment in their world.

Americans felt very differently about such things. The experience of Daniel Morgan is a good example. Note that he actually felt entitled to strike a British Officer because he had been ill treated by him during Morgan's service as a teamster with the British Army. The very idea that an Officer and Gentleman was entitled to strike him was unthinkable to a fellow like Morgan:

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/daniel-morgan

 

[Cvkotvkse]

I have had no trouble hunting anywhere with a gun with a 48" barrel. Maybe I'm more talented than most.

Perhaps...
But here in Florida, I have found myself in close-grown cedar swamps in which I doubt I would have been able to see my front sight on a 46" barrel... IF I were able to bring the rifle to my shoulder in that tangled mess in the first place... I once heard, but could not see, a gòod buck go by by me about 6' away... My buddy saw it when it broke out into an open spot after it got past me. Not my preferred terrain, but when what you are after is in there and you have to go in after it, a gun of manageable length is nice to have...

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Florida Airginner,
Here is a shortened long land repro bess next to a short land pattern repro bess. It’s definitely lighter and handier than than the full length barrel. It was cut off in one cut with the a hacksaw. Nothing else was moved or modified. It’s has a homemade front site. View attachment 224844

That has to ne all of 2 ounces you removed.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Perhaps...
But here in Florida, I have found myself in close-grown cedar swamps in which I doubt I would have been able to see my front sight on a 46" barrel... IF I were able to bring the rifle to my shoulder in that tangled mess in the first place... I once heard, but could not see, a gòod buck go by by me about 6' away... My buddy saw it when it broke out into an open spot after it got past me. Not my preferred terrain, but when what you are after is in there and you have to go in after it, a gun of manageable length is nice to have...

I avoid areas like that because you always spook the game out ahead of you and never get a shot. You send young guys through stuff like that with out a gun to flush the deer out to you. OR, use a pistol.

 

[skwerleater]

Numb,
I took off 9 inches of barrel ( overly thick Indian barrel) , and the nose cap and stock wood. It resulted in a noticeable weight difference. Def more that two ounces. Maybe 3/4 of a lb. I never weighed it so not sure. Def handles better.

 

[Ranger 1755]

I feel compelled to comment here. There was / is no such thing as a "Ranger Musket". Have been a ranger living history person now for 40 years, found no evidence of it. In the early days, rangers were paid a bounty to bring a firearm from home as well as a good blanket, but that didn't last long. Rangers were always an Independent Co, not Regulars or Provincials but viewed little better than Provincials. I would recommend doing a little reading, OF SORTS FOR PROVINCIALS, De Witt Baileys books and the new Ranger publication by Tim Todish. The 2 remaining Ranger companies on Lake George were issued land pattern muskets with wooden rammers, referenced in Baileys book. These would have been the 1728 or the 1730/40 model. 46 inch barrel. No one was allowed to simply cut down issue equipment. This was only done on special occasion or for repairs. I have several copies of orderly books from Lake George units that state men to report to the armorers with damaged barrels to be repaired. Many years ago, I visited Rogers' Island and Earl Stott who owned the place. I got to view and examine a box of cut off barrels. They were all cut is about 2 inch increments from 2 inches to 12 inches. Although they had been in the ground a long time, they all showed evidence of damage and splitting. Apparently they were trimmed back to clean them up. There is a photo in Stotts book, EXPLORING ROGERS ISLAND showing some of the barrels. I think the speculation is from taking the 12 inch piece from a 42 inch Pedersoli and arriving at 30 inches. The term Ranger Carbine is used sometime, this is not a sawed off musket, a carbine was of carbine bore or a nominal .660/.665 caliber. Carbines could be up to a 42 inch barrel. I recently put together a musket based on Baileys description, started with a components package from the Rifle Shop for their 1728 musket and put a 1742 double bridle lock in it. So if you want to do a correct Ranger impression, forget the short fantasy guns, use an early long land pattern and leave it alone. Also, Rangers were issued a stand of arms, bayonet, scabbard, frog
, 1 inch waits belt and a 9, 12 or 18 round belly box. The 9 round is a single row and the 12 and 18 double row. There is quotes in Rogers and other journals of Fuzees (fusils) and sometimes light infantry weapons but you cannot go wrong with a long land pattern musket. Rangers were also clean shaven, but we'll leave that discussion for next time.

 

[smoothshooter]

Kings property. You go to prison for shortening the Kings musket.

Maybe, . . . .
I would imagine a lot of officers and senior NCO’s would look the other way on something like that when on the the edges of civilization, along with other rules.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

I avoid areas like that because you always spook the game out ahead of you and never get a shot. You send young guys through stuff like that with out a gun to flush the deer out to you. OR, use a pistol.

At that time I WAS one of "the young guys..."
I DID find myself in a similar situation a few years back when I was in my mid-50's and trying to follow a leashed tracking dog àt night blood-trailing a wounded deer... except this time, the dense thicket was also a haven for bears and some wild hogs in the 375-400 lb. range. No shorter guns available. Was just glad that neither type of varmint responded to the lone dog's baying as a challenge to be answered, which does happen at times. A "brush gun" would have been a welcome companion, regardless.

 

[Boatncamp]

Just thought that I would stir the pot. If long land pattern musket were prevalent and they found a few pieces of barrel in the 4" to 6" length on the island, would that be the equivalent of turning a long land into a short land? Just considering....

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hi all. this is my first post although i have been reading on this forum for quite some time now.

I'm planning on purchasing my first flintlock soon, and im thinking about getting the rogers rangers musket from military heritage. Its a cut down brown bess with a 34 inch barrel.

You should look at a Serjeant's Carbine. Serjeant's were issued Artillery Carbines and turned in their halberds. They are .65 caliber, and short. A .630 ball will take a moose, so you would have no worries..
1756 Artillery Carbine

Kings property. You go to prison for shortening the Kings musket.

Actually, this was at a time when the British were cutting down LLP barrels and stocks to 42", PLUS there was at least one regular army unit on Ranger's Island with the Rangers, and the barrel pieces could've been from theirs. You don't just cut down a musket, you have to move the bayonet lug, barrel lugs and nose cap, AND shorten the rammer and thread the end. So it was done...., but with authorization from England.

Rogers Rangers in the F&I war and early Rev War were using a lot of personal arms, trade muskets, captured french arms were preferred to that of British and Dutch muskets.

Rogers was issued funds and had muskets made in New York that were proof tested by the Royal Artillery here in The Colonies. Nobody has been able to determine how close to an SLP or LLP Bess these were, or if the found barrel pieces were from those, or from civilian fowlers.

I think it is unlikely that Rogers would have allowed his men to be flogged by the British for any infractions of THEIR regulations. Rogers would have handled discipline himself. Knowing the "stiff-necked" nature of New Hampshire people, I think a flogging would have resulted in the mass desertion of the Rangers.

Actually Rogers' would not have had a say in the matter. It might have resulted in a mass desertion, but so what, they were not regulars. PLUS the British had already formed the 80th Regiment of Light Armed Foote as well as there being other ranger units such as Gorham's. Roger's was not the only Ranger commander, just the most well known

Maybe, . . . .
I would imagine a lot of officers and senior NCO’s would look the other way on something like that when on the the edges of civilization, along with other rules.

Very 21st century thinking. The officers would've been financially held accountable for the damaged muskets, AND they had debtor's prisons back in those days. They weren't "rules", they were laws, and they flogged for much less. Desertion was a hanging offence, btw. Today it's only short jail time and a BCD, for example. So they didn't look the other way.

Just thought that I would stir the pot. If long land pattern musket were prevalent and they found a few pieces of barrel in the 4" to 6" length on the island, would that be the equivalent of turning a long land into a short land? Just considering....

CORRECT, a lot of the used LLP Bess were shortened to SLP size.

LD

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I smell BS.