French 1777 Charleville Musket

[Smithen]

I was wondering if any of you have ever shot or own a French Model 1777 Charleville Musket before? If so how did you like them? Any problems that you see with them? I saw one on Track of the Wolf today and was thinking about maybe getting one but wanted to ask the experts :bow: on here first. Thanks for any information.

Tyler

 

[hunts4deer]

All the Charlevilles that I've ever picked up and aimed had an extremely high comb to the stock. So much so that I couldn't sight down the barrel very well without really pressing my cheek into the stock.

 

[ericb]

The 66 Charlevile is the one with the High Comb. It was lowered for the 1777, and the cheek has a slight hollow as well. My Pedersoli 1777 points like a Purdy Shotgun - and all who point it say "Oh My!". As much as I desperately wanted a 66, I found the High Comb to be unworkable, and thus went for the 77, and never looked back.

As to whether or not you will like it - that is up to you. Don't know how much Musket experience you have, and although they are a Ball, and Musketeers are a fiercely devoted lot, they are a slightly different Animal. There's nothing wrong with a good Bess either - and both are authentic grizzled Veterans of History.

Let us know what you do - you will find no shortage of help & advice here.

Eric

 

[ericb]

ps - You get what you pay for. I would recommend that you shy away from the cheap ones - especially if you are going to fire a lot of Ball with Service Charges.

 

[Smithen]

At the moment my experience with muskets is zero. When I graduated last year I decided to buy myself a graduation gift and bought a Traditions Kentucky Longrifle as a kit and put it together over the summer with my father. Since that time i have become addicted. I have now been looking at smoothbore flintlocks because I'm looking for an earlier period of musket. I'm looking for more of a challenge and skill needed to shoot. Also since im really brand new I was wondering what your favorite muskets are? Personally I'm not able to buy a very good musket at the moment, paying my way through college, and trying to afford my girlfriend :haha: and I am also unemployed at the moment. So for right now I'm still in the looking faze but wanted to get as much info as I can.

Tyler

 

[ericb]

Yes, money can be an issue.

The main difference between Muskets & Rifles/Sporting Arms is intended Use & Manner of Shooting; their overall design & look reflects same. Muskets are intended to shoot a "looser", paper cartridge wrapped Ball, at a quicker rate of fire than rifles. But, being smoothbore (at least the earlier ones), they can digest a variety of loads and techniqes: Patched Ball, Buck & Ball, Birdshot with wadding, etc. They are also larger, heavier, and more robust. For a good overall view of many different types, go to the Pedersoli Website; they have good pics & descriptions of several different types, and you will find the different National nuances interesting.

You will not get very far into this before the subject of the Indian Replicas comes up, and I leave it to others with more experience than me to discuss these with you. I can tell you that I purchased an Indian made Sea Pistol, and I was not impressed - but I will not pass judgement on an entire class of products based upon my singular experience.

There must be active Shooters/Reenactors within driving distance; try to hook up with some of them - in addition to sound advice you may well come across someone who can turn you on to a good used one. There is no shame in a good used weapon, especially for your first one.

Do some research - get some advice - and ideally look, handle, & examine before you buy. There's nothing worse than thinking you got a bargin of the moment, only to suffer interminable frustration and anxiety thereafter.

A Musket is an ideal way to cut your teeth - and though you may branch out and graduate to something "grander', you will always hold a soft spot for your time with the Musket, as I do. You won't be sorry.

I'm sure other Forum Members will be chiming in shortly....listen to what they have to say.

Eric

 

[colmoultrie]

I have now been looking at smoothbore flintlocks because I'm looking for an earlier period of musket. I'm looking for more of a challenge and skill needed to shoot. Also since im really brand new I was wondering what your favorite muskets are? Personally I'm not able to buy a very good musket at the moment, paying my way through college, and trying to afford my girlfriend :haha: and I am also unemployed at the moment.

If you're trying to afford your girlfriend right now, you're doomed if you get serious. Wives are wonderful, but they cost much, much more than girlfriends! :wink: If, however, you're unemployed, she may think/say the same as she supports you...

Go used. That often means a Short Land Brown Bess, as they are more plentiful used and therefore cheaper than the Charleville, but there are some really good deals out there, and if you get yours from someone who knows what he's doing, the gun will not only be cheaper, but look more correct than it did when it left the factory (of course, the trick is knowing whether the seller indeed knew what he was doing - do your research before buying anything).

One thing to remember is that round ball out of a musket is generally a lot more expensive than rifle ball, because the musket balls are bigger and heavier. I can buy .490" rifle balls for $7.50/100, whereas .715" balls for my Bess cost $16/100 (plus shipping for both). That may not be a great difference for the number you're planning to shoot, but it just might add up.

 

[goon]

Where are you getting ball for the Bess at that price?
And could you please introduce me to this person?

 

[colmoultrie]

Eddie May. His address is listed several places on here. No affiliation, just a happy customer.

 

[goon]

Roger that. I'll look him up!

 

[ericb]

Why not get a mold & cast your own? You'll be amazed at how much lead you'll come across once you put the word out amongst your friends that you're looking for it....and casting your own is a lotta fun in it's own right. I hadn't cast for a long time, and had nothing left from the old days except my Lyman pot. Once I put the word out I wound up with a Coleman Burner, a half full Tank of Propane, and over 200 lbs of lead in less than a month...all free. Only cost I incurred was for the .662 Lyman Mold from T.O.W & a ladle..and that's paid for itself already...

 

[colmoultrie]

Suffice it to say I have two small children, and therefore neither the time nor (truth be told) the interest, especially when I can get cast RB at what I consider good prices.

Back to the original post, I wonder if there is any reason, aside from the understandable desire generated by Track's pictures, why Tyler wanted a Charleville in particular.

Tyler, are you planning on doing a Rev. War impression? Are you more attracted to French designs than British ones? Let us know your plans, and perhaps someone will come up with something you haven't considered before.

 

[ericb]

No shame in trading/purchasing roundballs - done it for my .54 Rifle for years. Casting is simply an option.

And I agree with ColMoultrie - unless you're absolutely fixated on a Charleville - there are plenty other options. If you are determined to work with a Military Weapon, than obviously it would need to be a Musket. And if you're determined to go French, well, then you're looking at a Charleville. But as pointed out above, a Bess may be easier to come by. And again, if money is an object, consider a good used weapon - used and good is better than new, cheap & so-so, or...junk. Trust us on this....

 

[Smithen]

Tyler, are you planning on doing a Rev. War impression? Are you more attracted to French designs than British ones? Let us know your plans, and perhaps someone will come up with something you haven't considered before.

Im not really fixed on anything. I was just looking at that because it was the cheapest one I could find personally, without looking around to much (I need to look around way more). The main thing I would really like is that it is a smoothbore flintlock. I will mainly just be target shooting, and maybe go out hunting if I ever find the time. I will defenatly start looking for a used bess or others. As I said before I am not fixed on anything yet, just started looking and figured its better to ask people who know way more about it then I.

 

[DavidAmes344]

I was wondering if any of you have ever shot or own a French Model 1777 Charleville Musket before? If so how did you like them? Any problems that you see with them? I saw one on Track of the Wolf today and was thinking about maybe getting one but wanted to ask the experts :bow: on here first. Thanks for any information.

Tyler

My apologies if I shouldn't have resurrected this thread, but as it happens I fairly recently purchased the 1777 Charleville Musket reproduction from Track of the Wolf that you are asking about Tyler.

Firstly, I've been nothing but pleased with the folks at Track.

The musket itself seems to be pretty well built. The only complaint that I have about it is that the lock geometry is a bit less then ideal. The flint strikes too high on the frizzen making it a bit of a flint "basher". Because of where it strikes, the bulk of the spark shower falls in front of the pan which makes for somewhat unreliable ignition.

I have ordered a replacement cock, and plan to do a little metal work on the new one to angle the cock just a slight bit more forward which should alleviate the "bashing" and also put more of the sparks into the pan.

Honestly, I like the musket. But then again, I don't mind the tinkering.

Dave

 

[SAJones]

Here's an "amen" to Pilgrim's report. I bought one of the French Revolution 1777 Charlevilles when they first came out. Never sparked well. Called TOW, & they told me the lock geometry was poor, actually the same as the originals. They recommended replacing the cock & frizzen with US 1816 parts, & it now sparks very reliably. The musket itself is well made, but I have more accurate smoothbores so about the only time it gets dirty nowadays is when I wear my 2nd Maryland uniform in our local 4th of July parade. Folks love the boom from this big bore.

 

[DavidAmes344]

Here are a couple of photos of the lock out of my 1777 Charleville that illustrate the geometry issues.

First we have the half cock position which will give you an idea of how high on the frizzen this lock is designed to strike.

Here is a shot with the cock in the just fired position. The red line showing where the flint is ending, the blue line showing roughly a better position would be (and hopefully will be when I finish my tinkering).

Hope this is helpful.

 

[dd832]

Dave, here's a photo of a original 1777 & it has the same geometry as yours. The finish of the original can be duplicated on yours with sanding with 400 grit wet or dry paper. It's too bad they over polish these pieces, I guess they like the chrome look (comes from excessive curry intake I believe). :rotf: (hey take it easy lil' dude, it's not that funny)

Here's a link to original 1777's that might give you some ideas - http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20francaise/collection%20fusils/a%20a%20collection%20fusils%20gb.htm Parlez vous francais? I hope. Though the site is in french, the detailed photographs are exceptional.

Later, Mike

 

[SAJones]

Yep, that's how the lock looked like that came w/ the musket. One of the cures TOW mentioned was cutting the front of the lock cutout & bending the jaws down to where your blue line is, then welding. Since I don't weld, I took the easier route of buying an 1812 cock. Like I said, it works great.

 

[Timothy Gregory]

I traded an AR-15 clone for a new Japanese Charleville back in the early '90's. Took some getting used to with round ball. I have shot both patched balls and "naked" balls with great success. I would recommend a good Charleville without hesitation. Do your shopping, get advise from Charliville shooters, and have fun with your choice!