French musket - Deal or no deal?

[BLAHMAN]

I am not an expert about original muzzleloaders, what do you think?

The owner says that it is a french musket of about .70 caliber which was converted to percussion. About 1850. Lock works fine and the stock is a bit worn but ok, no parts have been swapped.
The owner wants 400 for it. The funny thing is that the musket is equipped with a front and a rear sight, maybe the rifling is worn off? :hmm:



I have posted this because I wanted to hear some opinions from the ''experts''. :wink:
For me 400 is ok, I mean the barrel is good enough to shoot it from time to time, the metal overall is ok and the stock is a bit beat up but no major cracks. It still looks good too, its just needs a bit lovin'. :grin:

What do you think?

Potsdam musket, perhaps? The swale in the cheekpiece is something I've seen on a Potsdam....

 

[Moloch]

I just found a pic from the potsdam musket and the lock plate in front of the hammer is squared, mine has a traditional round lock plate end.

Potsdam musket:

And mine:



What was the purpose of the swale? My guess is that the sights were so low that the stock needed a swale for better sight alignment. The swale does not look like an accident.

 

[Okwaho]

I have seen that swale on a number of French infantry flintlock muskets which are not designed for aimed fire and I have always wondered {as I said in my first post} if perhaps these swales were add ons after the guns left military service and were used for hunting or other civilian purposes.I don't recall seeing them on British muskets.
Tom Patton

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The "swale" first appeared on the French M1777 and remained through the production of that model, extending through the Napoleonic Era with the Year IX (I believe that's the correct designation) Model which was a variant of the M1777. While the soldier did not aim as with a rifle, he still aimed his musket and the cheek rest, or "swale", helped make that more comfortable, the high comb of the M1777 made it necessary. The US M1812 copied the French stock and cheek rest as did several European muskets.

 

[tg]

"Do you get any accuracy with that combination? What patch thickness do you use"

All the balls mentioned will stay on a paper plate at 45-50yds I have tried a lot of patching, waddding with bareball this is where the testing conmes in to see what the gun works, assuming it is a smoothbore I would try a pathc just snug enough to be able to thumb start and easily push down with out any tightspots, the condition of the nbore may determine this.the loads mentioned are probably OK, a moderate load of 2f to start.

Goes the extreme angle of the hammer from above and position of the bolster ring any bells with anyone on similar guns?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Well Moloch, it appears that your seller may have been correct about it being French BUT he left out important details. Try the Swiss reenacting site, "Rost & Grünspan" at:

http://www.rost-und-gruenspan.ch/

Specifically the page:

http://www.rost-und-gruenspan.ch/museum/plate_waffen_g181742.html

 

[Moloch]

Whatever the rifle may be, I wont get it so its not longer important for me.
I asked the owner for '' trusteeship service'' to take a closer look at the bore - so I can give it back if the condition of the rifle is not like described.

I've got an EMail of the owner beeing totally out of control saying ''the rifle is alright'' at least ten times and that he will never agree on a trusteeship service because I could damage the rifle or test shoot it. :youcrazy:
.
My ''bogus'' detector is ringing like mad, I better avoid this deal.

But a big thanks to you guys for the help! :thumbsup:

 

[PreglerD]

That is a real unserious dealer, only looking at the money. Where is the problem of trusteeship sending?

Good that you cancelled the deal! :thumbsup:

Better have a look at Herman Historika!

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

That's too bad really, but it started a great discussion that at least caused me to do a lot of searching in my library and in reference works that I had almost forgotten that I had so I appreciate your posting it. Sorry the guy is being such a jerk but that usually means that there is something better waiting for you elsewhere. The search goes on....

 

[Moloch]

@ VA.Manuf.06

Thanks, I really appreciate your kind words and the help with the musket. :v

@ kirrmeister:

He is all mad about trusteeship, I asked for trusteeship because the owner said that he does not guarantees that the bore is still good enough for life fire and he does not have proper equipment to check it out.

I asked for trusteeship because I can check out the bore with my bore scope; but after I said that ( via email) suddenly he got very angry and insulting.
He even said that I only want this gun via trusteeship to ''shoot and test'' it and hand it to him afterwards not buying it. :youcrazy:
Bad thing is that I already agreed to the deal via EGun.

As I made the suggestion of trusteeship he turned completely mad. I'll pay him the costs of his auction and dodge that bogus deal. :cursing:

I dont know what is wrong with the guy, I have made several trusteeship sendings and it always worked flawlessly.

All I wanted to do was to check out the bore at the nipple, I've seen converted muskets which had very deep rust pitting there but the barrel surface on the outside looked like new; I've heard that this place is prone to heavy rust on converted rifles.

I think I need to find a more professional platform for shopping, Hermann Historica seems to be very good but they have a rather strange bidding system. :hmm:

However, I gotta get myself a hefty drink after this. :wink:

 

[PreglerD]

Hi Moloch,

there is the possibility of "Treuhandkauf" at Egun. So you pay to egun and they hold the money until you got the rifle and say it is o.k. Perhaps you try that!

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[tg]

Sorry it did not work out, having an original that could be fired is a neat thing, I have an Austrian Civil was period gun but it is not shootable, but looks cool hangung on the wall.

 

[Moloch]

@ Kirrmeister: Thats exactely what the owner tries to avoid at all costs. (I said that with the trusteeship service of EGun there is no danger for him, but he does not want to listen to me.)
I think that he thinks I'll abuse the gun and afterwards I dont want to buy it.

Of course I will not buy it, its too dangerous for ME, I dont trust people with such behavior. :shake:
Maybe the musket he tries to sell does not fit his discription at all.
And not agreeing to trusteeship service is no reason to insult me and going totally mad and crazy.:cursing:

@ TG

I dont own a smoothbore long gun so that musket would have been very useful for me. It would have been my first original, my first smoothbore, my first converted long gun so the deal was good.
Sure I could get an Armi Sports M1842 shipped to me in a week, but its not the same.

 

[benvenuto]

Moloch,
the following info may be of assistance when cleaning your next purchase:

:hatsoff:
Conservation Treatment of Firearms by Paul Storch (PDF file)