french or english flints

[rawhide]

Wich do u think is better french amber flint or black english flint? I've only used the black english. Thinking of picking up some french amber. Any thoughts.

 

[MSK]

I have read that there were more French flints used in America than English ones (they've even been excavated in British campsites). I prefer the look of the French flints. I find however, that they don't seem to last nearly as long for me, being prone to chipping and sometimes partial shattering. They're generally more expensive as well.

Smollett

 

[Grumpa]

"Back in the day", most everybody used the French, amber flints, or so I have been led to believe by previous threads on this question.

Years ago, a friend of mine in the Royal American Regiment at Fort Pitt, appropriated a F&I War period French flint from under a glass display case, and put it in his Brown Bess. Until he quit/they were disbanded (?) it was the only flint he used. Other men around him were changing their black English flints frequently. I know, from what I have learned on this Forum, that the above is strictly ANECDOTAL, and not proof of anything. (Maybe his Bess was the only one in the Rgt. that was set up properly.)

From previous threads here on this subject, members of the Forum do not seem to have found any difference between the two types of flints. Perhaps the French flints of a previous day were found in a different location than current ones?

 

[tenngun]

I have never used a French flint. I have used a lot of Ozarks chert. It may be a little more brittle but seems in general to last about the same. I'm not a knapper, and just break noduals o through the chips till I find some that work. I would like to see a real test. 50 amber,50 black and 50 white snaped until there was nothing left to sharpen and see if one outlast the other on average. All the evidence seems to be 'well I like," and 'seems the(fill in the blank)last longer".

 

[gwalker]

I use both on a regular basis and can find no difference in either's performance.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

On my fowler and smaller flinter locks I prefer the black English ones.

But on my large 7" long banana-curve lock by The Rifle Shoppe (on the Fusil de Boucanier with 54" barrel) that has a VERY long throw/arc to it ... the amber/honey colored French ones last much longer.

 

[biliff]

Used both. Can't seem to get the hang of knapping the French flints so the English last longer for me.

 

[Patocazador]

My flintlock .45 came with a light brown/amber colored flint in place. It may have been a French amber but I'm not sure. It lasted about 125 firings. No black flint (English) nor white chert flint I have used since has lasted half that long.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've tried both in Pedersoli, Japanese, and India muskets. Maybe I got some bad stones from France, but the black, English flints sparked much better, and gave me better ignition. Anecdotal evidence to be sure.

LD

 

[Billnpatti]

I have tried both and not found a significant difference between them. However, usually I have found the French flints to be a bit more expensive than the English flints. If you find it that way, just buy the less expensive English flints. I have also found that both the English and French flints last longer than American flints. The American flints seem to be just a bit softer and need to be re-knapped more often. Just my observation.

 

[Canute Rex]

An observation and a theory.

English flints spark better. French flints last longer.

Sparking is a function of a sharp edge on the flint knocking bits off the steel frizzen. The harder the flint, the sharper you can knap it and the better it cuts the steel.

Problem: You can't temper a flint. Hardness comes hand in hand with brittleness and breakage.

So, you can be a pirate and go for "a happy life, but short," with an English flint. Otherwise you can go for longevity with a softer French flint and spend more effort on the details of priming, knapping, and cleaning.

 

[Artificer]

I have read that there were more French flints used in America than English ones (they've even been excavated in British campsites).

Smollett

Historically, French Flints were MUCH more popular in Colonial America than English Flints. They were often imported by the French around the Louisiana Territory or smuggled in by Dutch and other traders to other English Colonies, BUT it was because of the shape of the French flints and not so much the material it was made from. French Flints were shaped like what we are used to seeing on English Flints today.

It seems the French were smart enough to carefully guard the secret of how to make their better shaped flints for a long time.

English Flintknappers were making "Gunspall" or Wedge Shaped flints right up to the middle 1770's. (Most of us looking through a pile of flints today would chuck this type to the side and ignore them.) Gunspall Shape Flints did not give as good of sparks and did not last as long.

There is a good deal of information on these Gunspall flints in Colonial Frontier Guns, by Hamilton. Hamilton mentions the English did not know how to make flints in the "French Style" until some French Flintkappers were captured and brought to England during the AWI. Bailey has some quotes how "New Style" Flints were begun to be offered to and ordered by British Ordnance around 1777 (I think without checking) and they took the place by storm. These were shaped by what was then the "French Style" and not the old English Gunspall style.

As far as in modern times with French Amber flints, I have never found ones in the sizes that were correct for my guns. Most of the " Original Musket Style, French Amber Flints" that were sold in places I was familiar with, were WAY too large for modern Repro Muskets. (I think they were actually made for Cannon Locks and/or Wall Gun Locks.) I personally tried many types of flint over the years, but have always found the English Black Flints work best for me.

Gus

 

[M. De Land]

I knapp all my own flints now and have found some of the Keokuk chert from Oklahoma to work as well as the black English flint I was buying from TOTW.
I knapp arrow points and flint knives and a great many of the thinning flakes knapped off in the beginning stages make fine gun flints.
I knapped five each for two of my friends to test for me in comparison of the flints they are now using but as yet have not heard any feed back as to how they are holding up.
I have found that pressure flaking as opposed to percussor flaking is very important to gun flint life.
Most folks are cutting in half their flint life by banging on the edge with a hammer of some sort which affords far less control of edge shaping .
Using back pressure on the **** does not do nearly as good of a job in making a good spark producing edge either and is hard on the **** and frizzen pivots.

 

[hanshi]

I've always used either English or white flints and find myself well satisfied with both their durability and performance. Recently I acquired a few French amber flints and will test them out as soon as weather permits.

 

[Walks with fire]

I wish we had some flint or chert to make gunflint native to PA. I would love to make some.

 

[good ole boy]

We do have native flint.The farms around me here are loaded with flint from the Indians and they didn,t get it from overseas.They traveled and sourced it around streams and other outcrops and traded for it as well.

 

[uno676]

I've been thinking about making some out of jasper. Anybody try this?

 

[Khufu]

I use both, I have a Charleville, so out of respect for her, I use french flints, but the english ones I get from TOTW are perfect in my locks and outlast everything else I have used, they are pretty much self knapping, so if it ain't broke...

 

[MSW]

I've tried both and, in my admittedly limited experience, I can discern no substantial difference in their relative performance.

or

they both do about the same for me.

the French amber does look kinda cool, though. if you want to stand the extra expense to look cool, then by all means, go for it: they're your hard earned, God- entrusted, overtaxed dollars, and they should be used as you see fit!

Make Good Smoke!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I've been thinking about making some out of jasper. Anybody try this?

I have used Gunter Stifters sawn flints made from Jaspis (Jasper). They lasted me so long you would think I was lying if I said.