Fitzhugh Williams
40 Cal
I would love to see that book, but Amazon has only one and it is $210. So I tried a general search and found one in France for 24,39 € but it says it is «Indisponible». Probably couldn't afford he shipping anyway.
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French Powder Horns?
- Thread starter PathfinderNC
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Belleville
32 Cal.
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Found copies at about $200-300. Too rich for SSI.
Flask horn is like ship boat or art craft. When does a powder horn become a horn and when is it a flask?
Horn was the plastic of the day, but the double ends mean it’s a flask with horn body. There would be brass and copper flask that looked just like a horn but weren’t
It’s getting in the weeds, but that’s a powder flask, similar to horn bodied flask popular in the match lock era
For horn romance and all, a powder horn was cheap and low class substitute for a well made flask
Belleville
32 Cal.
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Looks like it may be available thru google books. But do not understand how to navigate. Anyone here who knows how? Please share.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Poires_à_poudre.html?id=QS84AAAACAAJ
https://books.google.com/books/about/Poires_à_poudre.html?id=QS84AAAACAAJ
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Then it would need a logo from one of those fancy French fashion houses!You will have to use French powder for the French horn..
Erwan
45 Cal.
I didn't think that it was so expensive now, before it twas around 50.00 Francs (before the Euro), what gives almost 15 or 20.00€ now, what could be +/- equal to 15. or 20 bucks...
To this price, I regret not buying a big full wooden case...
Some interesting information about this topic. It’s a little surprising that scrimshawed horns weren’t very common among the French in the New World. I guess they were too busy chasing beaver 
Erwan
45 Cal.
Don't joke too much about these critters right now: we've been having beaver problems in Absurdistan lately...Some interesting information about this topic. It’s a little surprising that scrimshawed horns weren’t very common among the French in the New World. I guess they were too busy chasing beaver
$209 on Amazon! $175 on ebay!
No eBook available
@PathfinderNC ,
I have no first-hand experience with or knowledge of French Canadian horns, but I have run across a few references.
The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly had an article entitled "Notes on Canadian Powder Horns" in the Winter 1969 issue (Volume 5, No. 4). Four horns were illustrated. These included a photograph of a Canadian Blackfoot pouch and horn set, but the photo is so dark and poorly reproduced, there is really nothing to see. The other three horns are represented with pen and ink drawings. These appear to be the same three horns illustrated in The Voyageur's Sketchbook, except the drawings in the sketchbook have been re-done and are much better than in the Quarterly article. However, the text of the article is informative. One important point comes to light in the text of the article, in that "Canadian horns seem to have been generally attached to separate braided cords instead of the straps used to carry the Kentucky horn and bag as a single unit" (p. 9). The braided cords evidently had tassels on the ends, because authors of both the Quarterly article and the Sketchbook went to the trouble of illustrating how to make them. Back issues of the Quarterly and most of the Sketchbook series are still in print, and available from the Museum of the Fur Trade Shop.
One of the horns shown is a "maritime" horn, evidently used by sealers. This is a horn of exactly that type that was sold by River Junction Trade Co. a while back:
The base was covered with a blue-green paint, which was apparently used a lot on French-Canadian furniture and accoutrements. This was mentioned in the MOFTQ article.
Ted Spring had a page about powder horns in his Sketchbook 56, Vol. 2: The French Marines 1754-1761, page 57:
Sorry about the terrible picture. I could not get it without the shadow. However, the text should be legible.
There is also this Metis horn, that likely dates from the last half of the 19th century:
Finally, in the "Old Guys Rule" department, is this terrific painting of Un Vieux de '37 ("The old one of '37"), by Henri Julien.
The painting dates from 1904, but I see nothing to criticise. You get a good look at the powder horn, which is in fact on a separate strap from the one supporting the pouch or haversack. You can barely see the pouch on the man's right side. Respectfully, this is not some nameless subject, but is believed to illustrate Edmond-Joseph-Edouard Mignault, an actual hero of the 1837 Patriot Rebellion.
Anyway, my take on the French Canadian powder horns is they seem typically pretty generic and fairly plain. From the illustrations I've run across, a lot of them have simple chip carving on sides of the wooden bases. At least one of the forum members (and Ted Spring, in his book) pointed out that scrimshaw was absent, but there appear to be some examples with rather crude letters and numerals carved in them. Some evidently were painted, and they seem to have been usually suspended from a cord separate from the shot pouch strap. The Metis horn (above) looks like it has an eye bolt in the butt to support the strap, the Ted Spring horn has a wire staple, and one of the horns illustrated by Dr. Hanson has a wooden knob, and another has a short piece of heavy leather nailed on, with a hole or slit for fastening the suspension cord. The maritime horns have flat bases with tiny "lobes" extending from the horn body for the suspension cord, but I don't know that these were really typical of French Canadian horns.
Good luck with your project! I hope you'll show us what you come up with. Meanwhile, I'll look forward to reading what the other folks may have to add.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
I have no first-hand experience with or knowledge of French Canadian horns, but I have run across a few references.
The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly had an article entitled "Notes on Canadian Powder Horns" in the Winter 1969 issue (Volume 5, No. 4). Four horns were illustrated. These included a photograph of a Canadian Blackfoot pouch and horn set, but the photo is so dark and poorly reproduced, there is really nothing to see. The other three horns are represented with pen and ink drawings. These appear to be the same three horns illustrated in The Voyageur's Sketchbook, except the drawings in the sketchbook have been re-done and are much better than in the Quarterly article. However, the text of the article is informative. One important point comes to light in the text of the article, in that "Canadian horns seem to have been generally attached to separate braided cords instead of the straps used to carry the Kentucky horn and bag as a single unit" (p. 9). The braided cords evidently had tassels on the ends, because authors of both the Quarterly article and the Sketchbook went to the trouble of illustrating how to make them. Back issues of the Quarterly and most of the Sketchbook series are still in print, and available from the Museum of the Fur Trade Shop.
One of the horns shown is a "maritime" horn, evidently used by sealers. This is a horn of exactly that type that was sold by River Junction Trade Co. a while back:
The base was covered with a blue-green paint, which was apparently used a lot on French-Canadian furniture and accoutrements. This was mentioned in the MOFTQ article.
Ted Spring had a page about powder horns in his Sketchbook 56, Vol. 2: The French Marines 1754-1761, page 57:
Sorry about the terrible picture. I could not get it without the shadow. However, the text should be legible.
There is also this Metis horn, that likely dates from the last half of the 19th century:
Finally, in the "Old Guys Rule" department, is this terrific painting of Un Vieux de '37 ("The old one of '37"), by Henri Julien.
The painting dates from 1904, but I see nothing to criticise. You get a good look at the powder horn, which is in fact on a separate strap from the one supporting the pouch or haversack. You can barely see the pouch on the man's right side. Respectfully, this is not some nameless subject, but is believed to illustrate Edmond-Joseph-Edouard Mignault, an actual hero of the 1837 Patriot Rebellion.
Anyway, my take on the French Canadian powder horns is they seem typically pretty generic and fairly plain. From the illustrations I've run across, a lot of them have simple chip carving on sides of the wooden bases. At least one of the forum members (and Ted Spring, in his book) pointed out that scrimshaw was absent, but there appear to be some examples with rather crude letters and numerals carved in them. Some evidently were painted, and they seem to have been usually suspended from a cord separate from the shot pouch strap. The Metis horn (above) looks like it has an eye bolt in the butt to support the strap, the Ted Spring horn has a wire staple, and one of the horns illustrated by Dr. Hanson has a wooden knob, and another has a short piece of heavy leather nailed on, with a hole or slit for fastening the suspension cord. The maritime horns have flat bases with tiny "lobes" extending from the horn body for the suspension cord, but I don't know that these were really typical of French Canadian horns.
Good luck with your project! I hope you'll show us what you come up with. Meanwhile, I'll look forward to reading what the other folks may have to add.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
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Hey Notchy Bob,
What an excellent, in-depth review you've pulled together. I really appreciate all you presented here. As I am reading the many responses including your thorough documentations, it appears to me that a French Canadian powder horn, similar to that we find among the American and English counterparts in North America, really didn't have much by way of surface adornment of carving and shaping. It's an interesting difference to ponder. Even as a Folk Art medium, the French Canadians, even in established communities, seemingly didn't appear engaged in using a powder horn and associated accoutrements in the manner the English/Americans did. It raises interesting questions about the different cultures and customs of the early explorers, settlers, and inhabitants. My first thought is that embellishments are done in one's leisure and as a way of 'sprucing up' one's world up a little. So often in early American culture there is evidence of some attempt at folk-ish adornment either by applications of paint or carving or by the beauty of design (i.e., the early Shaker and Quaker communities). I wonder why these sentiments didn't seem to resonate (from the rarity of surviving examples) among the French Canadians?
Cruzatte
50 Cal.
The more I look at some of the photographic presentations from museums, I have begun to wonder if I'm looking at 19th century powder horns. It seems that 18th century powder horns, whether British Colonial or French Colonial are more scarce than 19th century examples. More to the point, without specific, known provenance, how does one ascertain that age of a powder horn, anyway?
Fitzhugh Williams
40 Cal
I once bought a nice old horn from a very knowledgeable dealer in NC. It was obvious an old horn, but how old? It was plain, had come fŕom near the coast, was large and had a cord for a strap. The cord was of the type used around boats and size of the horn indicated it may have been made for large caliber guns and hunting water foul. More than that it was impossible to say. I hate to think of the story that might be made up if it found its way into a collection or a museum. It could easily be passed of as French.
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I'll bet you had a sealer's horn. Hunting seals for their fur was a major industry in the Maritime provinces in the 19th and I believe into the 20th centuries. They used very crude, long-barreled smoothbores, frequently with no triggerguards, and heavy powder charges. The powder horns were consequently large, and I understand that a lot of the horns were fitted with butt plugs of heavy cork.
It might be interesting to start a separate thread about sealers' guns and equipment. The guns were very crude and utilitarian, similar to the old "buccaneer muskets," and considering that the guns and horns got knocked around on ships, small boats, and sledges, dragged over ice, and exposed to salt spray and water, I suppose a lot of them may look older than they actually are.
Do you have any pictures of that old horn?
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
Fitzhugh Williams
40 Cal
OK, I finally got around to making some pictures of the horn. Note that the butt cap was fitted to the horn instead of the horn being shaped round like most of mine are. The tape measure was set on 16".
Attachments
The Rifle Shoppe has castings of the metal parts for this type of pulverin horn. I don't see it online, but it is in the printed catalog.
