French Trade Knife Kit???

[crockett]

No, knife edged towards the back. On some of the English half tangs, I didn't know some were an even thickness to the back of the tang. The Russell Green River patterns had a style I think they called a sticking knife that was that way and I thought it wasn't PC because the tang wasn't tapered.
The Carl Russell book also mentions some "scalpers", and he has drawings, that are very long (10-11") and skinny and don't look like any thing I've come across as far as photos. These would have been very early knives in upstate NY area (If I recall correctly) and very early, that is late 1600's to early 1700's. The only trouble is, I'm now questioning a lot of the material in Russell's book(s). He has been wrong on a lot of things.

 

[LRB]

"No, knife edged towards the back. On some of the English half tangs, I didn't know some were an even thickness to the back of the tang."
Quote Crockett.
I missed something. Yes. The French tapered to a knife edge at the butt of the tang, but what I'm saying is at least some had a knife edge all the way around the tang also. I'm getting conflicting info on the English scalpers from three different researchers. Two believe the tangs to not be tapered until into the 19th c. One is adament that the opposite is the case. I have a top view pic of an English with a GR stamping that is tapered, but is that 18th, or 19th c. Could be either. I can make out FUR under the GR and crown, with other letters I cannot read. Do you know?

 

[Carteret Kid]

Would this work?
http://jas-townsend.com/product_in...d=758&osCsid=899c94224feb8c81d29931cd78d064c2

 

[LRB]

It could be made passable with some simple modifications. There were some straight spined versions made. Lose the brass pins and use iron/steel. Brass/copper pins were rarely, to almost never used on early knives of any kind. Round the choil a little there at the rear of the cutting edge. Probably look best with an octagon grip, and allow it to fit a little forward of the tang blade intersection. At least 1/8". That is an incredible good price. With a little work, it could be made to pass very well. If you had a belt sander, it would help to sand away that grind line in the blade and maybe clean the blade up a little, but stay aware of heat build up if you do.

 

[crockett]

Wick- That must have been Furness (aka Furnes, Furnis) who made a lot of trade knives with the GR Crown stamp mark. Like you, I've only seen the tang from the top so I really don't know that much about the border of the taper other than from the top it looks like the tang thins towards the rear.
A few years back I was in almost daily contact with an archivist over in Sheffield. She was one of the few people that was permitted look at the old documents, etc and was a great help.Most of the stuff that I found out the "knife expert" BL (you know who I mean) had wrong came from her help which I then was able to get a second confirmation from HBC records. In any event the way she explained it to me was that it often occurred that one cutler, say Furness, got a large order that had to be filled rather quickly so he made some of the order but had others around town sub-contract for him, under his mark. In other words these other cutlers had Furness stamp marks in their shops and stamped the blades they made for Furness (or who ever they were sub-contracting for) with the proper stamp. This is why there seems to be some variation on the spellings and stamps- plus I was told folks at that time often changed how they spelled their names.
On the Crown aspect. I was told you had to make cutlery for the crown to be entitled to use it in your stamp. You would think a GR with a crown would indicate the knife was made during one of the three King Georges or a VR during Victoria, and so forth (I think I recall a WR). If however a cutler had made cutlery for King George but not Queen Victoria and Queen Victoria was now on the Throne, that cutler might have still used the GR stamp as it was a status symbol even though doing so would not have been proper, so the GR or VR may possibly post date the particular Monarch- if that makes sense.The GR isn't that big a deal as there were the three Georges except that it might be that a GR stamp was used after the last George.
Jack Adams- who has the Nowill rights, claims they made knives for the trade but the Nowill stamp was Crossed Keys and very few (if any) are known to have been found on this side of the pond. The only thing I can figure is that maybe Nowill did make trade knives but for other people, maybe Furness on one job, then Fenton, Hiram Cutler, etc on other jobs.

 

[crockett]

On that kit from Townsend- Wick knows more on the handle shapes than I do but all the ones that I have seen didn't have a noticeable swell at the butt of the handle. The handle should be rather of even width and thickness from front to back (possibly a slight taper) and either retangluar or diamond shaped in cross section with the lines as Wick explained. And of course the iron pins- very essential.