Frog Lube

[Billnpatti]

Recently one of our contributors mentioned a product called Frog Lube. It is reputed to "season" the bore of guns. Several years ago, Bore Butter made the same claim and the manufacturer stopped making that claim because it could not be proven. Now, Frog Lube is making a similar claim. I wrote to them asking for some kind of supporting proof of their claim. The following is my letter to them:


I have read some of the information about Frog Lube and find it very interesting and am considering giving it a try in my muzzleloader. We have at least one person on our forum who claims that it is an excellent lube and cleaner. However, my question is about your claim that Frog Lube "seasons" a bore. This was a claim made several years ago by the manufacturers of a product called Bore Butter. When confronted by the proof that modern steels that are used in gun barrels today are not sufficiently porous to be "seasoned", they had to remove that claim from their advertising. Now, Frog Lube is making the same claim that Bore Butter had to quit making. This leaves me pretty skeptical about your claim that Frog Lube will "season" a bore. Do you have any scientific proof of this claim? Any metallurgical high magnification photos of an actual change in the surface of gun metal when treated with Frog Lube. I want to believe your claim but in the light of current pretty convincing arguments to the contrary, I need some proof of your claim. If you have such proof, I want to post it on our muzzleloading forum for the amazement, amusement, edification and enlightenment of the many naysayers.

Sincerely,
Bill Martin
This is the response that I received from Frog Lube:

Hi Bill;


We're not familiar with the claim made by the company you mentioned, nor do we believe they make a product system similar to ours.


FrogLube is a 2-part system; Solvent and CLP.


Ours is an independent claim and we stand on it. Our claim is based on the use of the term "season" as a 'verb'. We claim that FrogLube enhances the performance of the firearm through 'seasoning' in that it enhances the resistance of the metal to environmental factors such as heat, moisture and corrosion. Our system addresses all types of fouling, including 'heavy metal' caused by bullet travel, heat and pressure inside the barrel.


Our proof is empirical and proprietary and based on observable results in the field and at the range. We don't place a whole lot of stock in "scientific proof"; since scientists often test in a climate controlled laboratory and are not known to be very good shooters. We are shooters who make weapons performance and care products.


Your belief or disbelief in our claim is your right & you have the right to share it on the forums. We hope we have at least given you some enlightenment or amusement; but either way, we stand on the claim.

FrogLube

Just thought I'd share the information that I received. You will have to make up your own mind about its efficacy in "seasoning" your bore.

 

[BrownBear]

We don't place a whole lot of stock in "scientific proof"; since scientists often test in a climate controlled laboratory and are not known to be very good shooters. We are shooters who make weapons performance and care products.

Oh, that's rich. :bull:

Sounds like political spin to me. My momma taught me not to spin, and she'd wash out my mouth with soap every time I did. Same as she did when I cussed. Clearly those guys and politicians didn't have good mommas like mine.

 

[George T.]

The bonding quality has been around the automotive product Duralube and has been around a long and it makes a fine firearm lube. The heat requirement is not new as Mili Tech products need heat as well. The Teflon filling small voids has been around a while as well. Like many I am not sure that they hold up to barrel heat and friction. I doubt that it will be much use in a muzzle loader but I may try it for my other firearms. Geo. T.

 

[dikman]

They must have political spin doctors on their payroll. They're just playing with semantics - using "season" as the verb?? A strange word to use if they're not aware of it's use before relating to gun barrels.

And as for not believing in scientific evidence, I think that says it all - there is obviously no supporting scientific evidence available (or they wouldn't hesitate to use it).

Oh, and full marks to you, Bill, for trying to get a definitive answer.

 

[Rifleman1776]

We don't place a whole lot of stock in "scientific proof";

Snake oil sales pitch without the wagon. :youcrazy:

 

[cynthialee]

We don't place a whole lot of stock in "scientific proof";

Snake oil sales pitch without the wagon. :youcrazy:

YES!!

lol that was what I was thinking

 

[Loxahatchee]

Their claim that Frog Lube enhances barrel resistance to environmental factors like heat and moisture should be an easy one to test and obtain "scientific evidence." Simply take 2 groups of the same metal and treat one with frog lube and leave the other untreated and subject them to the same conditions. How does the company not have any data such as that?

Their proof is "empirical" -numbers, "proprietary"-they "own it", and based on "observable results"- what they saw.

You can "stand by" any claim. That doesn't really mean much however. Im sure Bore Butter stood by their claim that it "seasoned" the barrel :blah: :yakyak:

 

[Dickydalton]

Oh well, I still use Bore Butter on the arbor......... :idunno:

 

[M. De Land]

Sounds like it may be more useful spread on Bass lures than in gun barrels but time will tell. :rotf: MD

 

[AZbpBurner]

I got a buncha samples of Frog Lube a while back. It works well in minimizing carbon build up on gas op rifle pistons. I use it for internal lube for my cap and ball revolvers, and as a nipple anti seize. After cleaning out any handgun, black powder or smokeless, a patch down the bore often cleans out a little more embedded residue.

I think it works by leaving a surface coating in the bore. I also use it on the surface of guns that get a lot of handling, since it seems to repel fingerprints, when applied, heated, and rubbed in.

Seems to do a better job than many other cleaner/lubes, and I like it well enough to actually buy a small tub of the stuff.

I don't over-think or over-react to any of the advertizing hype. Either it works and I like it enough to buy some, or it doesn't.

 

[dikman]

I looked up the MSDS - link here for your edification and/or amusement www.froglube.com/Pressroom-MSDS.htm

It has absolutely no information at all in it. An MSDS for water will probably look the same. For all it tells us Froglube could consist of oatmeal and water, with a bit of honey mixed in (hmmm, sounds a bit like my breakfast this morning).

I've looked at lots of MSDS over the years, and can honestly say I've never seen one before with such an absence of information in it.

 

[krieger]

That is because it is nothing more than repackaged 'food grade' lubricant. ie. it is made from edible plant oils.

It is used to lubricate food processing machinery.

You can get a gallon of it from any restaurant supply, cheap.

 

[necchi]

Your right that is the absolute worst I've seen,, it's a blank sheet.

For all it tells us Froglube could consist of oatmeal and water,

Nope, water (believe it or not) is a hazardous material and would have to be listed.

 

[Zonie]

I was hoping the MSDS would at least tell me what kind of frogs they are making the stuff from.

Probably using them little bitty green hoppy kind.

A big ole' bull frog would jump right out of their grinder machine. Besides, it would be a good waste of some good eatin' if they used bull frogs legs in their stuff.

 

[dikman]

I was pondering the name "Frog" lube, and came up with a rather tenuous link - in the "old" days navy divers were referred to as frogmen, navy Seals are divers, and supposedly "recommend" this stuff, so.....navy Seals/divers/frogmen. :haha:

After all, it's obviously got nothing at all to do with real frogs.

 

[MSW]

well, bring on the fairy dust, and while we're here, let's find out where Jimmy Hoffa is hanging out, and who really killed JFK ...

i'd put this in the 'too good to be true' category ... absent a sample, i'll stick with the lubes I use... if you want to do something else, i'll defend to the death your absolute right to do so, so long as you don't insist that I do the same thing you do.

good luck with the fairy dust lube!

 

[cynthialee]

:rotf:

fairy dust lube....

:rotf:

omg I need to go wipe the tears and snot off my face from that one.

 

[Pete G]

You guys have got it all wrong.

It is for sqeaky frogs.

 

[MosinRob]

I took all my froglube and threw it right in the garbage. It left my bores rusty. When I contacted the manufacture it was like I was bothering them. No useful information given and a lot of attitude. Here's my original post. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1189167/

 

[AZbpBurner]

So, after cleaning with soapy water, what is that CVA stuff supposed to do? I've used Frog Lube in a bunch of different applications and never had any rust issues attributed to it.

Sounds like operator error to me :hmm: