Frozen Nipples

[kawa1]

I have a Navy Arms 1851 mfg in 1963 by G&U (Gregorelli & Uberti)This weapon appears to be Unfired. I have attempted to remove the nipples as I do on all of my guns for maintenance and lube the threads.
I set the cylinder in a jig so that it can't move and when attempting to remove the nipples I destroy the nipple wrenches.
I have applied "Kroil to the nipples for three -four days, both sides to no avail.
I need a HARDENED wrench but have been unable to find one.
Any help and/or hints on removing these nips would be greatly appreciated.
Rog

 

[Eljay]

You might give the Kroil a couple more days. Sometimes also a bit of a tap with a hammer will help loosen things up a bit, either immediately or just letting the oil soak in later.

That being said you have a couple of options for a tougher nipple wrench. Pedersoli makes a nice but kind of expensive one that looks kind of like a cross with a screwdriver and three different sizes of nipple wrenches on the four ends. The Ted Cash ratchet types are tough and handy. And you can also just take a socket of the right size and cut it to make a nipple wrench out of it.

You can see the Pedersoli and Ted Cash options here. The Pedersoli is that last one. http://www.possibleshop.com/s-s-nipple-wrench.html

Other options involve playing games with heat and cold or drilling the suckers out.

 

[Naphtali]

Additional possible methods to break loose the threads:

1. (Easier) put cylinder in freezer for a few hours, then drop into boiling water.

2. (Less easy) spray problem area with ethyl chloride, then drop into boiling water. This is less easy only because ethyl chloride will not be easy to obtain. I believe it is restricted to prescriptions and/or medical/therapy staff.
***
The principle behind these is to constrict/reduce size of frozen parts, then quickly expand them - all without inadvertently breaking nipples by applying too much torque.

Hope this helps.

 

[phoenix511]

If the "jig" holding the cylinder is the typical two rods sightly smaller than the chamber diameter, and held in a vise, the cylinder captured over them so you can really push down on the nipple wrench, I wonder if a really tough wrench might just twist off the nipple cone, leaving you with the threaded portion of the nipple stuck in the cylinder. Now you have a drill/re-tap job.

Some wrenches don't fully engage the nipple flats, so you could check this. Some are too big and don't fit properly in the nipple recess, so also check this.

The freezing process outlined above seem a good conservative approach, assuming the nipple shrinks more than the cylinder. Some petroleum based lubricants turn to varnish over time, and boiling water and Liquid Wrench/Kroil work well for me.

Never tried using heated ultrasonics, but this can free up lots of stuck stuff using jewelry cleaning compound and water, but this might wreck the blueing.

I wish you the best and let the Forum know your results.

 

[Limehouse]

Since you have a jig to hold the cylinder, set the cylinder up in a drill press, drill out the nipples and use a quality easy out to remove the remaining part of the nipple.

 

[Zonie]

If we're going to consider drilling out the nipples my suggestion is to buy a 3/16 diameter drill bit.

This size is just slightly smaller than the smallest minor diameter used for pistol nipples.

The standard right hand drill bit must be used thru mouth of the chamber.
This will cause the rotating drill to run in the direction that will unscrew the threads if they break free while drilling.

The thru hole in the center of the nipple can act as a guide for the drill but it is best to drill it out to 3/32 diameter (again drilling thru the mouth of the cylinder) so it can effectively guide the larger 3/16 inch bit.

If the nipple doesn't break free, the worst that can happen is the remnants of the old nipples threads will remain engaged with the cylinders threads but they will be so thin they can be picked out with a sharp awl or dental pick.

This works well on the Colt cylinders because the nipple is square with the rear of the cylinder.

For a Remington with its slightly cocked nipples, drilling it out from the rear of the cylinder with a 3/16 inch LEFT HAND drill bit can also unscrew a stuck nipple.

Note: because the helix and cutting edge of a left hand drill bit are backwards the electric drill must be run in "reverse" to make the drill cut.

Neither of these drilling methods should be used unless all other attempts to remove the stuck nipple have failed because there is a chance of damaging the cylinders threads.

 

[kawa1]

OK, Got them free. Thanks for all of the suggestions. What I did was after I re-machined the nipple wrench to make sure it fit the flats on the nipple, I removed the cylinder from the KROIL, set it up in the jig, placed the nipple wrench over the nipple making sure it was seated on the flats and tapped the top of the wrench with a hammer. I then took a can of "Freeze-Off Penetrating oil and gave the nipple about a 10 second shot of Freeze-Off, put the wrench back on and unscrewed them as if they had never been stuck.
The nipple gods were watching over me. I don't know if any single treatment was the deciding factor of if it was a combination of all of the above but it worked.
Thanks again for all of your input.
Rog

 

[Zonie]

Great! :thumbsup:

Be sure to use some good grease or better yet some "Never Seize" thread lubrication when you put them back in place.

"Never Seize" or similar thread lubricants are sold at auto supply stores.
It is used on spark plug threads so they don't gall up the cylinder head when the plugs are removed.

A few bucks will buy a tiny tube of it that will last about a lifetime.
It only takes a small speck of the stuff to coat the threads.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Before reassembling with whatever anti-seize you decide on, scrub out the threads on your cylinder, by spinning a bronze .22 bore brush, and also by cleaning off the nipple threads with a wire brush.

Some folks contend they never remove nipples when cleaning a cylinder, but I always have, and Tetra Grease, Militec Grease, or Frog-Lube all work equally well as anti-seize materials.

 

[M. De Land]

I think the nipples must have been reading these suggestions over your shoulder,thought..........EeeeGadddddddddddddds and just surrendered before receiving such harsh treatment.
Yah scared em out! :rotf: Called their bluff! Mike D.

 

[kawa1]

Thanks again folks for the added comments. I always remove the nipples for cleaning right after shooting. I also ALWAYS lube the threads and just snug the nipples down. Never have had this problem before and sure don't want it again.

One other thing that deserves mention, when I applied the Freeze-Off onto the nipple the solution fizzled like alkaselzer (sp?)
Rog

 

[Billnpatti]

It is sort of like a soda pop when you open it and it fizzes. The Freeze-Off is under pressure in the can and whatever kind of gas they use, it is soluble in the Freeze-Off liquid. So, when the liquid is under pressure, the gas stays in solution. When it is sprayed onto a part, the pressure is released off the liquid as it exits the can and the gas comes out of solution causing the fizzing.

 

[Dphar]

Drop the cylinder in a container of penetrating oil or plain old diesel fuel leave it for a few days.
And/or heat it in the oven to about 20 and try removing them.
Then may have been in the cylinder when it was blues and have some corrosion.
Dan

 

[dcriner]

Uberti seems to over-tighten revolver nipples. I have had to use an easy-out on the nipples of a brand-new, never-fired revolver.

 

[Billnpatti]

Dan, you made a typo on your oven temperature. What is the correct temperature?

 

[Zonie]

Hell!

Up in Montana 20 degrees is their oven temperature!

They think their really cooking when things get that warm.

:rotf:

 

[theoldredneck]

I have been a big fan of kroil for a lot of years. Few years back a friend told me about mixing acetone and automatic. Transmission fluid in a 50/50 mix. It beats kroil hands down. I keep the stuff mixed now in both small hand sprayers and sealed gallon jugs to soak smaller parts. Left in a open container it will separate and the acetone evaporate over time. A quart of each makes enough to last a long time and is cheap. Keep it off wood and some plastic.

 

[freekforge]

I might have to try the acetone and trans. fluid. I have tried everything listed on this thread and have still gone through 2 soft nipple wrenches and 2 hardened wrenches. :cursing: I made one out of a 5mm socket and it broke too.

 

[George T.]

I buy PB Blaster at Tractor by the gallon. I keep one of the new not nearly a pound plastic coffey containers half full and drop the cylinder in for a couple of days. If that does not work some one spot welded them! The cheap Traditions nipple wrench that I bought at Gander Mountain is serious hard. Mine looks like new even after being loaned out at matches. Good Luck!

Geo. T.

 

[freekforge]

Well i have broke 8 nipple wrenches and still have 2 nipples stuck in the cylinder. I am not quite sure how they got stuck i take em out and clean and lube them after every range session. Dad said to use pb blaster too he swears by the stuff.