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No. He said, and I quote "All you need to know about the momentum bull is that the recoil momentum is always greater, often several times greater than the impact momentum of the projectile. If that is your measure of killing power then you have to accept that your gun is far more deadly at the back than at the front!!!!" This is patently untrue. Momentum is EQUAL. For every action there is an opposite and EQUAL reaction (Newton's Third Law of Motion).
 
I am sure he was talking about " felt recoil", rather than strictly, " Momentum ". Otherwise his statement would not make sense. And I don't think he was trying to speak nonsense to us.
 
:bull: Momentum = Mass X Velocity. The rifle, due to its mass, will recoil much slower than the velocity at which the projectile leaves the barrel. Momentum for the ball and the rifle will be equal, but the force will be distributed over a much greater time for the rifle than that of the ball. Pull out your highschool physics book and reread the chapter on kinematics.

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No sir, go a bit beyond your high school physics book and you will find that the rocket effect of the escaping powder gas after the projectile has exited the bore adds considerably to the recoil while adding nothing to projectile velocity. Thus the recoil momentum is greater than projectile momentum right at the muzzle. Plus, since we seldom shoot game quite that close, the projectile is being slowed by air resistance so that by the time it reaches the game the projectile momentum is less than half the recoil momentum of the gun and at 100 yards with round balls may be less than one third.
In any case, if momentum is the basis for your favorite formula for killing power then your gun is more deadly at the rear than at the front.
However, when you look at kinetic energy you find the projectile has many, many times the recoil energy of the gun. I find those numbers more reasonable.
Jeff Cooper, writing for Guns & Ammo thirty years ago came up with a pet "stopping power" formula. A letter to the editor pointed out that by Cooper's formula a well pitched softball would have more stopping power than a .44 mag. Cooper replied "that just shows that anything can become ridiculous if carried to ridiculous extremes". Wrong Jeff, if a mathematical formula has validity it remains valid regardless of the size of the numbers one may plug into it. Pi r square works as well for a pin head or a planet because it is a valid equation. By carrying it to the extreme the flaws of Coopers formula became obvious. I think the fact that recoil momentum exceeds projectile momentum makes the flaw in those numbers obvious.
Like it or not, kinetic energy is the only valid measure of a projectile's ability to do work. That it is not a reliable measure of killing power I certainly do agree, because there is no such measure. Put even the very smallest bullet through the heart of an elephant and you'll very soon have a dead elephant. How do you quantify that?
People insist on applying John Taylor's knock out values in exactly the way Taylor repeatedly stressed they should NOT be applied. He stated it was NOT a measure of "killing power", not to be applied to high velocity rifles on thin skinned game and he admitted that, in his own experience, some calibers seemed to perform better than the numbers would indicate and some not as well. Now we see people even applying it as a measure of handgun stopping power. Taylor would be highly offended by that.
 
Pond :nono: oro was a poacher, I don't care what would offend him, as he offends me!
 
Do you guys remember the FBI study that was done a few years ago? I like to compare that pistol caliber "killing/stopping power" study to MLers, because the energies are similar. Without going into details [which I do not have handy], the study concluded that bullet DIAMETER was a key factor in stopping power. The FBI was concerned that it's issue .357 bullets were not doing the job. After exhaustive tests and study they decided [rediscovered] that the larger calibers, notably the .45, were the best. The larger diameter .45 hole caused system failure faster than the smaller bullets, even though they might be higher velocity. [The bureau study recommended the .45 auto as service pistol, but the concern that their new larger number of female agents could not handle it, led them to get S&W to develop the .40S&W to replace the .357.] I think this applies to the MLer ball--the larger diameter balls are better killers, vel and energy be darned. I also like to think in terms of .22 ballistics--I know from alot of experience with .22LR hunting that the lowly little round will kill all out of proportion to its size--well, many BP ball loads approximate .22 ballistics with much larger bullets! Imagine the .54 ball smacking something at .22 velocities! It is a killer!
 
You're right Mike, a well placed .22 will kill, has killed every critter on the continent, and I'm not just speaking of brain shots. That is why I say you can't quantify killing power. Dead is dead and there ain't no "deader".
My problem with these various killing power equations is that by the TKO example listed a .54 round ball at 1000 fps has almost exactly the same TKO value as a 150 grain .270 Winchester at 2800 fps. That is so ridiculous as to stand as an example of how badly flawed the formula really is. But what if someone actually believes that. We all know our round balls are adequate, just adequate, with carefully chosen and precisely placed shots. No stretching of the range, no bad angles, no guess work and round balls will get it done. But equal to a .270? No we don't want anyone to make the mistake of thinking their ML rifle has any power to spare.
Not wishing to give ammo to the inline crowd, I must admit that some Colorado outfitters will not take roundball hunters, and the rest do so with a groan and shake of the head. Not because of any theoretical formula but because of bad experiences in the past. Now admittedly most outfitters don't know how to guide a traditional muzzleloader and so create many of the problems they attribute to the ball. But it also is true that roundballs lack the penetration to make clean kills from angles where a heavy conical, or the aforementioned .270, would do fine. A .54 ball will get it done if used by a careful hunter, willing to pass up questionable shots, aware of his rifle's limitations and able to work within those limitations, but it ain't no .270!
 
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