Full length bedding

[Crow-Feather]

I have a 13/16 barrel and a stock that's already got a 7/8 barrel channel.

I was hoping that gap wouldn't be noticable. It is. So, has anyone ever bedded a full length barrel with accraglass?

Put clay into everything you do not want to be filled with the bedding material. To get a bit of clearance, place electrical tape on the sides of the barrel where it will be bedded. I place the release agent on the whole barrel as sometimes bedding material gets where it doesn't belong. I then wrap the barrel with plastic wrap to ensure the barrel doesn't become a permanent part of the rifle. Some bedding material can be dyed to a brown color and be less noticeable. I use rubber tubbing wrapped around the whole barrel and pulled tight to hold the barrel to the stock. It provides even pressure. Even with all the precautions, the barrel will still not come out easily and you must be patient and use caution releasing the barrel. Also tape the stock with painters tape. (no glue residue and easy to remove) Tape even where you believe bedding compound won't go. It has a mind of it's own.

 

[Chris In SE PA]

Hi,
I've posted many times about using AcraGlas to strengthen and seal barrel channels. A simple use of the search function will reveal many many posts about this on this forum. A varnish thin coat will strengthen the channel walls 3-10 times over bare wood. You can color match the epoxy so it disappears. I do it all the time unless my objectives preclude it. Use paste wax on the barrel as a release agent and heat the barrel with a heat gun or propane torch when removing it. Below are examples. I doubt there is any effect on accuracy. My use is just to enhance strength.

dave

Is that the regular acraglas or the gel?

 

[Chris In SE PA]

@Vaino You're missing the point of the thread. This isn't about the "want" to replace old style skills and knowledge with quick/easy/modern methods. My "need" here is based on the fact that I currently have dissimilar sized parts with the intended outcome of not seeing anything out of place when the piece if completed. I got a good deal on a stock w/a pre-inlet barrel channel. I also have a barrel that I bought off of eBay. I'm trying to put them together. If I had a stock w/o a barrel channel I'd be buying a swamped barrel and trying my hand at inletting the entire piece. That is what I intend to do on a future build. I'm new to this and have to start somewhere. I chose not to buy a Kibler kit. They look great when finished, but I wanted more of a challenge. The Kibler kits are mostly completed. I want to learn how to make one of these from scratch. But, my 1st build I didn't want to use a totally un-carved blank.

 

[dave_person]

Is that the regular acraglas or the gel?

Hi,
Regular. The gel won't work as I intend and is too thick.

dave

 

[Chris In SE PA]

@dave_person If I understnad correctly from th pictures: you stopped the bedding compound at the breech and didn't get any of the material into the tang area of the stock. It also looks like this process should take place BEFORE inletting the lock mechanism.

 

[Chris In SE PA]

@dave_person I was thinking that the thick quality of the gel was what I wanted in this case because I'm trying to fill in a 1/16 gap (1/32 per side).

@Spikebuck Thanks for the info.

Also wondering, should this be done BEFORE cutting in the barrel tenons?

 

[Artificer]

Chris In SE PA said:
Is that the regular acraglas or the gel?

Hi,
Regular. The gel won't work as I intend and is too thick.

dave

Exactly. When the inletting is pretty tight, it is FAR better to use the regular, because it squooshes out more easily where it needs to, while you get the barrel fully seated. Found this out in the mid 70's the ONE AND ONLY TIME I used Accraglas gel on a long rifle stock with fairly tight inletting.

Gus

 

[Spikebuck]

Also wondering, should this be done BEFORE cutting in the barrel tenons?

If the barrel does not already have the dovetails cut for the lugs...bed it before cutting the dovetails. The few locking points on the barrel the better! If the dovetails are already there, just fill with modeling clay.

I can't stress enough to pay attention to the back of the barrel as the breech plug many times is just slightly inset into the barrel or there is a "ring" of indentation around it. If there is already a hole drilled in the tang for the tang bolt...fill it. Fill ANY voids with modeling clay to avoid a lock.

Even though most of my bedding jobs have been on pretty tight fitting barrels, I haven't had issues with the gel variety. I use several C-Clamps when I put the barrel in, so the downward pressure squeezes out the excess. That said, the issue I had with the runny variety wasn't in the barrel channel. I completely rebuilt a Pedersoli Frontier and the breech on those has a silly cutout at the breech end under the bottom flat for a few inches...read as the barrel is actually floating in air. Trying to use the liquid in that case was a disaster as it kept wanting to run out of the lock inlet. I had to build a "dam" out of tape to hold it in place.

 

[Vaino]

Chris in Se.....just responding to some of the posts that don't have oversize bbl inlets and are still epoxied....Fred

 

[WashingtonCounty]

I’ve done a bunch of bedding and repairs with acraglass and have switched to West Systems GelFlex epoxy. Waterproof & flexible ‘cause it’s used on boats. Light amber color and fairly thin. Long working time, 24+ hour cure. Tint with stained maple sawdust. If you want it to stay in place for a complicated repair it can be thickened with Silica Thickener from Total Boat. I used it all the time around the house and shop. Most recently on gluing up butcher block countertops.
My theory on bedding is that the forestock is very thin and prone to splitting over a 200 year period. I think the epoxy would be good at stopping cracks. If I live that long, I’ll let you know

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Put clay into everything you do not want to be filled with the bedding material. To get a bit of clearance, place electrical tape on the sides of the barrel where it will be bedded. I place the release agent on the whole barrel as sometimes bedding material gets where it doesn't belong. I then wrap the barrel with plastic wrap to ensure the barrel doesn't become a permanent part of the rifle. Some bedding material can be dyed to a brown color and be less noticeable. I use rubber tubbing wrapped around the whole barrel and pulled tight to hold the barrel to the stock. It provides even pressure. Even with all the precautions, the barrel will still not come out easily and you must be patient and use caution releasing the barrel. Also tape the stock with painters tape. (no glue residue and easy to remove) Tape even where you believe bedding compound won't go. It has a mind of it's own.

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Another option for releasing epoxy bedded stuff is to heat it. It looses its will to live at about 450F. Had to do that on a Win Mod 70 in a dandy piece of walnut.. I haven't had to unstick a muzzleloader barrel, but my backup plan has been to heat a chunk of steel rod under bore size to 500F or so and run it up and down the barrel. Next part the plan is how to remove the steel rod if it warps

 

[TGJaeger]

With all of the work that goes into making a nice stock, why in the world wouldn’t you use glass bedding? Makes the stock multiples stronger and I think also, more accurate. I like Pro Bed 2000 as it’s the easiest for me to use and seems to be pretty strong, it’s a bit higher priced but again, compared to the cost of all else, it is minimal.

 

[WashingtonCounty]

I’m a belt and suspenders guy, so on an octagon barrel, I neatly tape on Saran wrap in addition to wax, etc. I always bed before I have stuff like barrel dovetails installed. If those are already installed, I turn the barrel upside down. On my 1830’s pile ‘o splinters restoration, I bedded in a modern barrel of the same size and the did minor re-inletting for the original shop forged barrel and staples. I haven't had any problems with bedding in short sections as long as I use epoxy without fillers and clamp it really firmly. So I do the barrel and breechplug/tang in two or more separate “pours” and ease any transtions with 400 grit

 

[WashingtonCounty]

With all of the work that goes into making a nice stock, why in the world wouldn’t you use glass bedding? Makes the stock multiples stronger and I think also, more accurate. I like Pro Bed 2000 as it’s the easiest for me to use and seems to be pretty strong, it’s a bit higher priced but again, compared to the cost of all else, it is minimal.

For sure. Not HC, but neither are the electric lighting or Chambers oil finish I use

 

[FlinterNick]

Not a huge fan of doing a full bending on a muzzle loader. If the intention is to free float the barrel that’s going to take a lot of arca glass and some skilled work with resins and release agents.

On my guns I use arca for repairs, and gaps if needed, but i haven’t used it in years. The last time I used it was on a Miroku charleville (which I’m restocking now) because stock had broken a few times at the rammrod entry area. For me it was always a last option to use arca glass.

I prefer a more organic method and use caranuba wax mixed with mohawk wood filler wax, I melt Them into a tin and brush on to the stock while its hot, let dry and I use a cotton mop bit to shape it out. The Carnuba wax leaves a hard almost glass like shell but is much easier to remove or scrape out. While it wont add much strength to the channel it helps keep it tightly fit.

Now if you took out too much in the barrel channel and you have some large gaps as you had mentioned, i suppose arca glass can fix that problem or you can shim the barrel channel with veneer wood.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Yes, it is best to do before lugs are installed and inlet and also the lock. However, it can still be done after those tasks and the holes or spaces blocked with clay. You can also do it with the barrel plug and tang installed but because I paint the barrel channel just to add strength and protection, I don't usually bed the tang area, which normally is a very strong part of the stock.
You can thicken regular AcraGlas with the flock that comes with it.
dave

 

[oldwood]

This "bedding discussion " is interesting for even an old dog like me , who solved bedding issues before CNC inletting was invented. My two cents worth is this..........Don't make "glass bedding " the focus of a m/l build , unless there is a wood defect that might endanger the quality of the end product. Glass bedding scares newbee builders into abandoning a project. I've seen it. I have a good friend who is a retired m/l gunstock machine shaper. and precarver. When he would shape , and inlet customer stock blanks, invariably , an expensive stock blank would have some undesirable defect. My friend would save those unsalable , defective , but extraordinarily attractive , and expensive precarved m/l stocks , simply because they , just shouldn't be wasted.
It isn't complicated or expensive to use cheap dollar store epoxie with Brownell's or another "brown color", epoxie dye from a woodworker's store. "Quirky and scary" release agents used for m/l rifle wood repairs , can be replaced by using simple , free , plastic grocery bags . I can hear the groans from all the "perfectionists" , out there , but I can " feel " the coins in my pocket saved on postage and expensive "Acraglass" from Brownell's. Been doing bedding , and any up to catastrophic , wood repairs on m/l rifles for 50 years. Use your head , keep it simple , don't be intimidated .......... oldwood

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Hi,
Yes, it is best to do before lugs are installed and inlet and also the lock. However, it can still be done after those tasks and the holes or spaces blocked with clay. You can also do it with the barrel plug and tang installed but because I paint the barrel channel just to add strength and protection, I don't usually bed the tang area, which normally is a very strong part of the stock.
You can thicken regular AcraGlas with the flock that comes with it.
dave

The clay thing works 99% of the time. I stuck my Win Mod 70 at the recoil lug, which was the 1%. Clamping it with thickened Acraglass pushed the clay out of the way. I am now superstitious. I was thinking of trying candle wax on my current project

I do it for crack stopping vs fixing inletting issues. My 1830’s family rifle had cracks at two of the barrel pins and all of the ramrod pipes. About half of them made their way to the nosecap. I don’t have any recoil lug cracks in the centerfire guns I built in the 1960’s. Might be coincidence. But I’m “sticking” with it ;-)

If the inletting is good, probably takes an hour and couple of tablespoons of epoxy

I agree, the dollar store epoxy works great for filling inclusions and sets up fast so you can keep working. Woodworkers superglue works great for tiny stuff like tearout
I do restoration work on Federal period furniture. Only use hide glue, shellac, and wax. I just feel full stock guns are subject to more stress and have thinner wood, so I use epoxy
This is what I do, for what it’s worth. I respect the methods that work for other posters

oh, and I misspoke, I don’t bed the tang or the lock inlet-just the breech parts

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Hi,
Yes, it is best to do before lugs are installed and inlet and also the lock. However, it can still be done after those tasks and the holes or spaces blocked with clay. You can also do it with the barrel plug and tang installed but because I paint the barrel channel just to add strength and protection, I don't usually bed the tang area, which normally is a very strong part of the stock.
You can thicken regular AcraGlas with the flock that comes with it.
dave

Wondering what you use to paint the barrel channel? The one original I’ve taken apart was almost black under the barrel and the lock mortise. and I’d like to simulate that