Fullstock Hawken In .58!

[Mulebrain]

I recently acquired this from Bigsmoke, on that other forum. It was built by a builder with years of experience, and my question is the barrel wedges. This is a well made gun, and I am curious why no wedge key inlays, and button ended keys?

I think this rifle would be much better off with them!

This is a convertible gun, as you can see. The cap lock can be installed as well!

What do you think?

 

[MSW]

That's a nice looking rifle!

I personally like the simplicity of it, and I think that estaunchions (wrong word?) would detract from the effect, but that's just one guy's opinion.

make good smoke!

 

[torn moc]

Its the UGLIEST Danged thang I ever saw!
You ought to send it to me so I can despose it of properly and save you from being seen carrying such an ugly rifle.

 

[Trench]

That's a good rifle, and I'm glad you rescued it. Can't stand to see that rust on the locks! I like the rifle without the wedge key plates.

 

[Skychief]

That's a beauty there Mule Brain! It looks "business-like", yet attractive. Congrats!

 

[JJB22]

Nothing wrong with that rifle, I like it as is. I almost bought a conversion similer to that one a while back.

 

[F.G. Ford]

That is one fine looking rifle!
Remember, the builder was attempting to replicate a very early "Hawken" hence the absence of wedge key inlays.
I also noticed that the rifle has two lock bolts, early for a "Hawken"
Pins were still in use in the 1810-1820's, so the concept of wedge inlays was early.
Being so, it makes your rifle "very" interesting in concept.
And also replicating that mystical "Hawken" we're all looking for.
Congradulations on a very neat find.
Old Ford

 

[J.D.]

That is a fine rifle. Nothing at all wrong with it.

Barrel keys, some with heads, some without, and with no escutcheons, were pretty common on better guns, even early on.

Check out the Womelsdorf-Reading rifle and the Haymaker rifles on the American Historic Services page for a coupla illustrations. At least one very knowledgeable researcher seems to think the Haga rifle may date to the late 1760s, to illustrate how early keys were in use. There may be more rifles with keys and no escutcheons on the AHS page, but these two come immediately to mind.
http://www.americanhistoricservices.com/html/home.html

God bless,
J.D.

 

[tg]

I to think that the simplistic beauty might suffer if they were added, just the view from my room with padded walls and barred windows. :grin:

 

[JayDee Flohr]

Dang nice gun!!!!!

 

[torn moc]

Mule Brain.....I was jest kidding .....!!!
Thats a Very Fine Rifle..!! Congrats on a such a great Find!...why cant I be so Lucky???

 

[Leonredbeard]

Mule Brain,
I'm surprised no one jumped on this. It looks like the caplock conversion is intended to be fired without the bolster being screwed into the barrel. Is this so? Do the lock screws withstand the pressure coming out the vent? Do you ever actually intend to fire it that way?
volatpluvia

 

[BobKrohn]

I had posted a topic to the percussion area regarding an original full stock Hawken in a local auction.
One of the "unusual" things (to me) was the lack of escutcheons for the wedges.
So this is a very authentic feature.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/233708/

 

[DEWB]

Nice looking rifle. But I have to agree with Volatpluvia. If that drum is somehow permanetly connected to the lock and not screwed into the barrel I would be very leary about shooting it that way. It looks dangerous to me! Please be careful! Dew

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That's a fine Hawken. I don't know who the builder was, but I think he got it right. You would expect the keys to not have escutcheon plates on a rifle of such early style and the two lock nails are a nice touch, too! What does it weigh?

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Nice looking piece Mule Brain, you were picking in tall cotton when ya got er.

Being an early style, (kinda a transition rifle maybe) I like it better without the escutcheons.

If I am seeing what I think I do about the percussion X-over, can't recall another quite like that.

Has anyone seen my Country? I seem to have lost it

 

[MikeChapin]

The lack of escutcheon plates is more authentic that having the plates would be. If you look at a lot of originals that use wedges, many of them have no escutcheon plates.

I was not going to have them on the Hawken I built a few years ago. I managed to bugger up a couple of the slots so put plates on them. The only real advantage of the plates is that it was easier to put in capture pins later.

The percussion set up looks a little strange. It looks like it would be tough to get a good seal on the drum. I too am wondering how well it handles back pressure.

 

[Mulebrain]

Mule Brain,
I'm surprised no one jumped on this. It looks like the caplock conversion is intended to be fired without the bolster being screwed into the barrel. Is this so? Do the lock screws withstand the pressure coming out the vent? Do you ever actually intend to fire it that way?
volatpluvia

Well, I will keep the rifle the way it is! The vent is recessed some to allow the small protrusion on the drum to fit in. The drum is permanently affixed to the lock. The whole percussion assembly is held in place by the two lock screws.

This gun was built by George Dech a master gunsmith of Nazareth,PA. He passed away in 2007, and this gun is number 370.

You can read more about him here!
http://www.jacobsburg.org/images/jhs_winter_2007.pdf

 

[JayDee Flohr]

That drum system should work fine. We were using an item similar to that 30 years ago, only it was really ugly. It was a block of brass with a nipple in it that replaced the frizzen. It had a hole drilled to line up with the vent. A corresponding flat piece of brass was put in the jaws to hit the cap.
From what I see, this drum system not only looks much better but will work better also.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Now I understand why the percussion lock has never been fired!( Note rust in pictures) There is NO way those lock bolts are going to withstand the backpressure against that drum. :nono: I believe you will be breaking the wood around the lock mortise, and endangering your forehand if you fire the gun that way.

Please don't risk injuring yourself or others with this percussion design. Shoot the gun as a flinter, instead. :shocked2: :thumbsup: