Furbearer/varmint hunting?

[bigbore442001]

Here in the northeast, the only game open now are the varmints( well, I digress. We do have snowshoe hare but it is very hard without a dog)

I was thinking of bobcat, red and gray fox as well as the ever present coyote.

Anyone here ever go for those animals specifically with their muzzleloader?

 

[Walks Alone]

As I had done in the early 70's, I went back to traditional ML's only for predators and varmints about 3 years ago. No camo and mouth calls I make myself. Use my 32's for the varmints and either of two 36's for the predators mostly, although I do carry a 45 capper pistola for backup and possible doubles. Lots of challenge but also lots of fun for year round shooting around here.

 

[barebackjack]

Ive called and killed 33 coyotes so far this winter, my quest to get one with a MLer is ongoing.

I normally carry my .22-250 and a shotgun. This year ive been carrying my 250 and my GPR instead of the scattergun. Normal year Ill kill 3 or 4 with the shotgun, but so far this year I havent been able to suck one in close enough. I did take a frustration shot at about 160 yards with the GPR in a 25 mph cross wind, ya, big miss. (But dumped him with the 250).

Coyotes are tough to hunt these days, at least here. Everybody and their mother is tootin calls at them, most of the time educating em. Ive seen guys parked on hills with the pickup window down, blowing the call out the window :shake: . Ive always said a coyote is the toughest animal to hunt, second to the crow. You get one shot at them, if you miss, their wise to ya for the rest of the season.

Only got a two or three weeks left here before it warms up and than the hunting really gets hard.

I love predator hunting.

Walks Alone.....you have good luck with those smaller calibers on coyotes? I would think the .30 range calibers would be a bit small. I personally think a .223 is to small for a coyote gun.

 

Now you're talking! yes, I hunt woodchucks, fox and the dastardly Eastern Coyotte with my ML. Mostly - of the three though, I concentrate on chucks. Coyotte are getting to be more than a nusance here in PA, and man them buggers are smart. And since thay took the bounty off fox and insisted that there now be a specific season in which to hunt them - they are all over the place. Word of caution when hunting Eastern Coyotte with a ML -- have a back-up gun. Eastern Coyotte are going up to about the 50 pound range with an attitude that has no fear of people and then there is the pack mentality as well. You want to have a .38 revolver in a handy pocket in case you wound one or make his buddies mad becuase you shot their pal. Reloading a ML under the conditions of duress caused by circiling coyotes at close range may not be in your best interest.

 

[bigbore442001]

Yeah. Eastern coyotes can be big. I shot one two years ago with my muzzleloader and it required two shots. It weighed 44 lbs. They are tenacious. Some of those things running 60+ lbs aren't unheard of here in New England.

I like the idea of the back up cap and ball revolver.

A couple of weeks ago, there was a meeting at a local sportsmans club with state officials regarding changes to Massachusetts law concerning coyote hunting. The way it stands now, we cannot use rifles larger than 22 LR at night or handguns larger than .38 caliber at night. During daylight hours,depending on what part of the state you are in, anything goes. You could hunt coyotes with a .50 if you wanted to. Once the sun sets, a warden can bag you with having a weapon larger than what is allowed at night. This is a distinct possibility if you are hunting way in the woods and come out to your truck in the dark.

Technically, you could hunt with a handgun( as long as you have the proper permit) at night for coyote here. Hmm. That would be interesting.

 

[barebackjack]

Man did I love my .17 when we had alot of fox. I completely agree with ya on that one. What a laser. And you rarely had an exit and the entrance was bullet diameter.

But sad to say our fox are few and far between now with all the coyotes (I really liked fox hunting).

I spanked a few yotes with my .17 and just never had luck putting em down fast, even with a decently placed shot. My bread a butter is the .250, i think its a nice balance between having some power to put down a 35+ lb dog, bucking our ever present prairie winds, and minimizing fur damage (we process our own fur, and I hate sewing holes shut, but the buyers think all our fur is trapped :grin: ). Plus fox are near extinct here now so we dont worry about them and fur damage.

Ive also done alot of shooting with the ole 220 swift, my old man had four of em.

This year however with the coyotes getting hunted harder by lots of rookies ive had to step up even heavier. I built a .308 in a remington action last summer and have been having to use that far to much on 500+ yard coyotes that have been educated. My hunting is for enjoyment, but in our area population control of these things is first and formost.

Im gettin real frustrated that I havent been able to suck one into closer range for the MLer. Usually I get several with a shotgun in a year. I had one at about 80 yards but in three steps he was gonna wind me and be gone, so I just shot him with what was in hand.

So would you say that a .45 caliber is a nicely balanced caliber for predators as far as fur damage, knockdown power, wind bucking ability, and trajectory and such?
I have no experience with small MLer calibers, but damn if .36 just doesnt seem smaaaaalllll.

 

[Slamfire]

I shot a lot of 'yotes out west in the 70s, when I came here and saw the size of them I went into denial. They are twice as big as the ones in California. This eastern county must be the land of milk and honey. :shocked2:
I did manage to kill one with my .36. He apparently didn't notice the grass had been cut, and we could see across to the fence line he used for his pathway. :thumbsup:

 

[bigbore442001]

I remember reading that eastern coyotes have some red wolf genes in them. Thus they are larger than the western coyote.

 

[paulvallandigham]

WADR, I don't believe Eastern Coyotes are bigger. I do believe we are seeing a lot of cross breeding between coyotes and feral dogs, that produce larger "Coy-dogs ". The danger with these cross breeds is that often they don't fear humans, and have no problem coming into close proximity of people to kill pets, or livestock. I know of one instance where a feral dog cross was running with a small pack, and it was the dog that went down to the farmer's pond to grab the ducks, which he then took back to the fence row where the coyotes waited, and they would all head to the woodes to share the kill. A friend killed the dog and took both the dog and the duck back to the farmer. He was grateful that the dog had been shot. He had shot another that was running with the same group of coyotes, and asked my friend to shoot any of the rest if he got a shot. 6 months later, my friend had not seen the pack, but had seen lots of tracks. He checked with the farmer, and the depridation of his ducks had ended when my friend killed that last dog.

I am not suggesting that coyotes that are hungry won't kill farm animals, or pets. However, most coyotes stay shy of people, and their property.

 

[redwing]

Coyotes "Desert Dogs" don't kill live stock or pets?
I think you are living in an Eastern Fog. The Desert Dogs do millions of dollars in damage in the western states. They kill sheep, calves, ranch dogs. There are so many of these critters in the west that the damage is great. They are killed and trapped by the 1000s each year, they are a real problem. :cursing:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't even kniw if its worth my trouble to answer someone so dumb that they didn't even read the rest of my comment. However, For your information. There is a difference between the body weight, and tracks of a domesticated dog, and a true coyote. Because of color phases, and the distance most people are from these critters, I don't rely much on size estimates. There is a strain of coyotes out of Kansas that is red in color, more rust red than true red like a fox.

The best way to identify whether you are dealing with a coyote, or a feral dog/coyote/cross, is to examine their tracks, or the feet of the dead animal. On a true coyote, the inner two toes on each foot will be small in size than the outer two toes. On a Feral dog/cross/coyote, ( coy-dog ), you will find it has the inner two toes LARGER than the outer two toes on the same foot, just like the domestic dog.

I have not been able to examine a lot of kill sites, but those I have examined involving livestock losses involve coy-dogs, or feral dogs doing the killing. Coyotes will come in and feed on the corpse, but it is usually the larger coy-dog that does the killing, unless the pack is running with a feral( wild) dog.

I do not take my observations as universal. I know too much about dog behavior to ever think that. I am sure that coyotes do kill dogs, cats, and livestock. My uncle acquired a cross between a german shepherd and a wolf, and it seemed to be okay. Certainly around the wife and kids. However, it got to wandering one night, and killed every chicken in the neighbor's chicken coop, eating none of them. My uncle found someone who lived many miles away on a large open ranch who would take the dog, and he paid the neighbor for his losses.

 

[BRUN]

Remember this is the same guy that claimed roads were shut down due to rotting moose corpses.Somebody called his B.S.on it.This sounds the same to me.

 

[Ron LaClair]

I haven't taken any yotes with my Muzzle loaders but I took this guy a few years back with a flatbow and broadhead tipped wood arrow. I was deer hunting when I saw him hunting mice in a field. I brought him into bow range by sucking on the back of my hand It took 3 shots before he gave up the ghost.

 

Outstanding! Can you tell me more about the bow rig? I am just getting into bow hunting and need some intellignece I(cause I don't know - what I don't know). I think I want to go traditional - but the compound stuff is what looks like the mot available and most effective.

 

[KyFlintlock]

I have only killed prob a dozen or so coyotes over the years, most during bowseason while deer hunting. A few with modern rifles, but only a few specifically targeted using the rabbit squealer.

What calls do you guys recommend besides the rabbit squealer for the winter/early spring?

Can you give us some calling recommendations? :hatsoff:

Thanks
Wess

 

[Ron LaClair]

Deaconjo, Traditional bows are akin to traditional ML's in that they put more challange into the hunt.

Try this site for a lot of good info about Trad archery.[url] www.tradgang.com[/url]

 

[redwing]

I missed that one, called my bluff? Well get off your butt and visit the Jackson area. Not with your hippy pals but with hunters in that area. This is very real the Government Dogs only get good press.

 

[Walks Alone]

IMO some of you are putting way too much emphasis on size, as in bigger coyote = harder to kill. In over 50 years of hunting them (a lot) I have not noticed that to be the case at all. No doubt desert dogs are generally smaller than their northern cousins, but 50+ pound coyotes are taken on occasion even here. And most of my predator hunting was for the northern dogs along the slopes of the north Rockies. At an appropriate range for the firearm/load being used a well placed hit on any size coyote will drop it like a rock... a poorer hit will send it into tail spins or on its last dash before pile up or let it get completely away to die later on its own depending on where hit. Wish I could say I drop every one like a rock. But I get lots of tail wags, some that run and have lost a few completely over the years (not to mention my fair share of complete misses). Wasn’t because the coyotes were bigger”¦ and it wasn’t the firearms fault.


bigbore -

My 45 backup is not a revolver, it's a side lock percussion. Only IMO, but your state boys are just inviting a lot of wounded predators with those firearm limitations for night hunting. Probably a safety thing for the more populated east, but the same could be achieved by them if they allowed shotguns, which are arguably the best all round firearm choice for night hunting predators anyway. In my state spotlighting is legal, as is any firearm at night. But then we have endless miles of nothing to hunt in too, so shooting safe is easier to achieve.


barenackjack -

Sold my Swift's many, many years ago, and the last of the 22V's too when I switched over to 17's for most of my pred calling. Unless the range gets very long or the wind stiff, the 17's are my go-to for calling, and never let me down. A 20-30 grain pill starting out at 44-4500 fps does knock very hard.

The 22V is a great choice for the more often than not windy and wide open spaces of your area... so is the Swift. I used them both for 25-30 years of calling in the west along with a truckload of 22 Hornets, 222's, 223's, and several 22 wildcats before I discovered the 17's. But they are too much up close IMHO. Know all about 500 yards becoming a close shot too from doing ADC at ranches where they have had so many pot shots taken at them by ranch hands. I pull out one of my hot 6/6.5mm wildcats for those scenarios. Not after fur anyway, just a dead dog for the rancher.

To me the 36 RB is well "balanced" for predators, and I like the extra challenge of using them. But some folks use their 54's for coyotes, some even shooting conical’s. Makes up for poorly placed shots I suppose, but those guys must really like to sew. I have four 45 side locks and love them for the woods walks and matches. And as I said, my backup to the 36 is a 45 capper pistol. I think a 45 would work fine for preds and help you some with the wind/ranges in your area. Fur damage would depend on how hot your load is and where hit, but it will be more stitches than from a 36.

BTW, toughest to call in and harvest, one-on-one with mouth calls is lions IMO.

---
I believe that confidence in a firearm and your ability to use it far out weighs what caliber you choose to shoot. But it’s pretty common in all forms of hunting for some folks to try to make up for the lack of both by shooting howitzers instead of something more balanced to the task at hand.

 

[Walks Alone]

NWTF Longhunter -

:hatsoff: Successfully harvesting a coyote with a long bow is a step above taking them with muzzleloaders in my book, even if a chance sighting. You did afterall call it in off-the-cuff and it looks like without camo. Great picture.


Deaconjo -

Comes down to how much chllenge you are looking for, and personal choice. Doing it with a tradtitonal long bow will be the most challenging. While I did hunt deer with both long bows and recurves when younger, when compounds came alone I never felt they were primitive enough to be a choice for primitive hunting. Still don't (although I did shoot them in target competitions from the late 60's to late 70's).


KyFlintlock -

Howling works well this time of year.

What kind of "calling recommondations" are you asking for? Call types? Call brands? Call sounds? Call sequences? ???

 

[jbg]

Want to try a real challenge? Try Turkey hunting with a bow. I tired for years with no success, and finally gave up. I only know of 2 people who have ever been able to do it.