Fusil de Chasse specs

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JackP

36 Cal.
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I wrongly posted this in Smooth bore forum then realized I should have put it here,

I'm gathering info for a Fusil de Chasse build. I would like it to be as much like the plain hunting gun as possible. Things like drop at the heel, proper stock wood and pull length would be very helpful.
I have Track's plan but the drop at the heel is 2 1/2" which seem too shallow.
Clay Smith says on his site that Beech or Maple would be the proper wood but most seem to think walnut is correct. any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jack
 
Concerning the stock wood, Clay Smith appears to be speculating when he says,
All of the originals I have seen were stocked in a light colored hardwood including beech and maple and stained. Large quantities of wood were exported to Europe from America during the 18th century since good hardwoods were becoming scarce in Europe. To be more correct, this gun should be stocked in plain beech or maple but walnut is available as well.

He doesn't cite a source but rather refers to personal observation which reminds me of the parable of the blind men and an elephant. Just how many originals has he seen?

In the book, The French Trade Gun in North America by Kevin Gladysz, he describes three surviving fusil de chasse guns in three different museum collections in detail. He states all three have walnut stocks.

I agree that hardwoods were exported from North America to Europe, but question the economics of transporting wood across the Atlantic to be used to make inexpensive trade guns to be transported back across the Atlantic for the Indian trade.

I have seen pictures of high end European made guns with fancy curled maple stocks, so guns were made in Europe with maple stocks, but these were made for nobles and wealthy land owners where cost was less important.

I agree that beech was used to stock some trade guns. I don't have a reference for examples in French guns, but S. James Gooding in Trade Guns of the Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970 states,
Other than shape, wood and stock finish are the only other features to be considered. In 1717, the secretary gave an order to Mr. Hawkens "the Proof Master" for, among other things, "70 Gunstocks Sound and of a Dark Colour at 3s per stock." In 1769, the Governor and Committee wrote Thos. Hopkins and council at Albany Fort "We have ordered as many of the guns to be white stocked as we could procure." The 1717 stock "of dark colour" would have been of walnut while the white stocks would have been beech, both woods which were commonly used by the Ordnance Department at the time for military arms.

The price paid for trade guns by the Hudson's Bay Company were close to the price the military paid for muskets. I think this was the same for French guns.

I have several books that show pictures of French and English trade guns stock in maple, but the authors are convinced that these guns were restocked in North America.

Of course, the walnut used on the trade guns would have been European walnut and not American black walnut.

Concerning the question of the drop at the butt, the only source that gave detail measurements on a fusil de chasse is For Trade and Treaty by Ryan R. Gale. Gale's sample is described with a drop at heel of 2.9".

I have one of The Rifle Shoppe's Saint-Etienne fusil de chasse parts set. Their stock has a drop of about 3" at the heel.

I suspect there was some variation in actual measurements considering that the fusil de chasse was made and imported over a long period of time from different gun makers in different areas of France, the bulk coming from Tulle and Saint-Etienne. In fact, the term as used in period documents may have been used for a general type of hunting gun and not a specific pattern of gun. The pattern that we call the fusil de chasse today may have been a late pattern shipped to New France in the last decades of French possession.
 
Hi,
Russel Bouchard's book "The Fusil de Tulle in New France 1691-1741" also describes several surviving hunting guns (fusil de chasse) and they were all stocked in walnut.

dave
 
I don't normally look for these, but did get a good look at one last weekend, and we were in agreement that it was stocked in plain walnut.
 
Ken Hamilton has handled many an original FdC and all were walnut stocked. I’d opine that anything ‘maple’ was RE-stocked here! Make sure to buy a long enough (44.3” or so from memory, as measured in old French pouce/pieds) and with the tapered breech section w/ 1 wedding ring at the transition.

The barrel should also be as light as possible, not a thick heavy wall at the muzzle like the Centermarks and others.
 
Concerning the stock wood, Clay Smith appears to be speculating when he says,


He doesn't cite a source but rather refers to personal observation which reminds me of the parable of the blind men and an elephant. Just how many originals has he seen?

In the book, The French Trade Gun in North America by Kevin Gladysz, he describes three surviving fusil de chasse guns in three different museum collections in detail. He states all three have walnut stocks.

I agree that hardwoods were exported from North America to Europe, but question the economics of transporting wood across the Atlantic to be used to make inexpensive trade guns to be transported back across the Atlantic for the Indian trade.

I have seen pictures of high end European made guns with fancy curled maple stocks, so guns were made in Europe with maple stocks, but these were made for nobles and wealthy land owners where cost was less important.

I agree that beech was used to stock some trade guns. I don't have a reference for examples in French guns, but S. James Gooding in Trade Guns of the Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970 states,


The price paid for trade guns by the Hudson's Bay Company were close to the price the military paid for muskets. I think this was the same for French guns.

I have several books that show pictures of French and English trade guns stock in maple, but the authors are convinced that these guns were restocked in North America.

Of course, the walnut used on the trade guns would have been European walnut and not American black walnut.

Concerning the question of the drop at the butt, the only source that gave detail measurements on a fusil de chasse is For Trade and Treaty by Ryan R. Gale. Gale's sample is described with a drop at heel of 2.9".

I have one of The Rifle Shoppe's Saint-Etienne fusil de chasse parts set. Their stock has a drop of about 3" at the heel.

I suspect there was some variation in actual measurements considering that the fusil de chasse was made and imported over a long period of time from different gun makers in different areas of France, the bulk coming from Tulle and Saint-Etienne. In fact, the term as used in period documents may have been used for a general type of hunting gun and not a specific pattern of gun. The pattern that we call the fusil de chasse today may have been a late pattern shipped to New France in the last decades of French possession.
Thanks Plmeek, for all the info.
Jak
 
Hi,
Russel Bouchard's book "The Fusil de Tulle in New France 1691-1741" also describes several surviving hunting guns (fusil de chasse) and they were all stocked in walnut.

dave
Thanks Dave, Would that be English or Black walnut?
 
Thanks Dave, Would that be English or Black walnut?
Hi Jack,
Most likely English walnut, which is Juglans regia the same species of walnut found in Europe and central Europe and Asia. However, if American black walnut is all you have available, you can make it look very close to English walnut by staining it with yellow aniline dye dissolved in water.

dave
 
Hi Jack,
Most likely English walnut, which is Juglans regia the same species of walnut found in Europe and central Europe and Asia. However, if American black walnut is all you have available, you can make it look very close to English walnut by staining it with yellow aniline dye dissolved in water.

dave
Thanks Dave as always for the Impossible to find advice and Tips. Black walnut would probably fit my bank account better also.
Jack
 
My Tulle fusil de Chasse is in Walnut stained in Cherry and brown, then a good amount with true oil will do the trick. See my Tullle if you want here:
 
I totally got it, please consider my apologies. I know 1 time is enough. I am probably just to happy to have found this forum where it is possible to interact with like minded people!
Lol.
Happy to have you.
Why not start your own thread in the smoothbore forum and fill us in on the particulars of your favorite gun?
 
FYI, if finding a suitable ‘early French’ lock becomes a challenge, you can see how I did successfully modified a round-faced lock to be the flat-faced lock of the banana shape style for an early 1700s contract gun I was going for. Of which I then had to facet pan and do a little more decorative filing, i.e., removal of unwanted features or re-shaping thereof.
 
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