Gemmer Hawken review

[Black_Feather]

Not odd at all.

The new importer put his name on it, and. Investarms still has their regular markings.

Thanks for the pic

 

[fishmusic]

Just picked up a Gemmer Hawken, and thought I’d offer a review. This was my experience, yours may differ.



Ordered it from it’s new importer in La Grand Oregon, and was pleased to receive it is lightning fast time. Out of the box the fit of barrel into the channel wasn’t too inspiring. A bit of twisting in the forearm developed during shipping and storage perhaps, but that has improved now that the rifle is together. The fore end tip channel required a couple layers of brown fiber packing tape to get even bearing force on both wedges. The front trigger pull is pretty heavy (much more so than my TC Hawken), but after being set, is quite crisp and usable. The metalwork and inletting seemed fine for a factory produced gun in this price range. The rifle came with a simple but sturdy looking rear sight, adjustable for elevation, and a bold front sight. The barrel has a 1 in 60 inch twist, optimized for shooting patched ball.



A casual glance through the sights however showed no light on either side of the front post in the rear sight notch. Zilch. Zero. The rear sight notch was way too narrow, but a few minutes with a set of needle files and cold blue solved that issue. No biggie. At the first range session however, the Hornady .535 diameter ball (pushed with 90 grains of FFG and a 0.015 pre-lubed patch) impacted almost six inches low at 50 yards. And that was with the rear sight set to its maximum elevation. Still, with the conditions being pretty breezy and spreading the group horizontally, the group it shot with nine balls was 1.6 inches. I thought that showed potential. The patches were pristine, with no abrasions or burn-through.



So, back to the workbench, and after applying a micrometer and some high school trigonometry, I was a bit aghast. I basically had to lose almost half of my front sight height to get it to shoot on at fifty with the rear sight set in the middle of its adjustment. So, I filed away. Lots of metal dust and a bit of cold blue later, I was back in business.



Back to the shooting bench. Today, the winds were fairly still and at fifty yards off the bench she put five shots into 0.729 inches. Does that qualify her as “good”? I don’t know. I’m a serious shooter and have a lot of experience in different shooting disciplines, but this is only my third black powder weapon. Suffice it to say that I’m satisfied, and I’ll be dropping some big game this season with this rifle. Probably some small game as well.



Would I buy a Gemmer Hawken again? Yes, absolutely! But anybody doing so had better count on some serious file work. The sights are an issue.View attachment 207860

As Jed Clampett said about Jethro, that he needed triggernometry 'cause he was the worst shot in the family.

 

[Jedidiah]

Nice shooting!
So is that left over stock? I thought Lyman was out of the muzzleloading business.
What is the name of the importer.

here is the box mine came in. Basically a GPR with a new name. I had to draw file the barrel to remove all the writing other than caliber and maker's name.

 

[Black_Feather]

Just picked up a Gemmer Hawken, and thought I’d offer a review. This was my experience, yours may differ.



Ordered it from it’s new importer in La Grand Oregon, and was pleased to receive it is lightning fast time. Out of the box the fit of barrel into the channel wasn’t too inspiring. A bit of twisting in the forearm developed during shipping and storage perhaps, but that has improved now that the rifle is together. The fore end tip channel required a couple layers of brown fiber packing tape to get even bearing force on both wedges. The front trigger pull is pretty heavy (much more so than my TC Hawken), but after being set, is quite crisp and usable. The metalwork and inletting seemed fine for a factory produced gun in this price range. The rifle came with a simple but sturdy looking rear sight, adjustable for elevation, and a bold front sight. The barrel has a 1 in 60 inch twist, optimized for shooting patched ball.



A casual glance through the sights however showed no light on either side of the front post in the rear sight notch. Zilch. Zero. The rear sight notch was way too narrow, but a few minutes with a set of needle files and cold blue solved that issue. No biggie. At the first range session however, the Hornady .535 diameter ball (pushed with 90 grains of FFG and a 0.015 pre-lubed patch) impacted almost six inches low at 50 yards. And that was with the rear sight set to its maximum elevation. Still, with the conditions being pretty breezy and spreading the group horizontally, the group it shot with nine balls was 1.6 inches. I thought that showed potential. The patches were pristine, with no abrasions or burn-through.



So, back to the workbench, and after applying a micrometer and some high school trigonometry, I was a bit aghast. I basically had to lose almost half of my front sight height to get it to shoot on at fifty with the rear sight set in the middle of its adjustment. So, I filed away. Lots of metal dust and a bit of cold blue later, I was back in business.



Back to the shooting bench. Today, the winds were fairly still and at fifty yards off the bench she put five shots into 0.729 inches. Does that qualify her as “good”? I don’t know. I’m a serious shooter and have a lot of experience in different shooting disciplines, but this is only my third black powder weapon. Suffice it to say that I’m satisfied, and I’ll be dropping some big game this season with this rifle. Probably some small game as well.



Would I buy a Gemmer Hawken again? Yes, absolutely! But anybody doing so had better count on some serious file work. The sights are an issue.View attachment 207860

Semi new shooter here, still considering this rifle in .54, I see you shot it with a .535 round ball, would you recommend the .535 or the .530 round ball, considering getting a mould to make my own if I buy one.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Ultimately, @Clanman92 will have to make this decision based on his personal load development. The tolerances of individual barrels seem to vary. So much depends on patch thickness and patch lubricant. Based on the price of bullet molds, most of us will recommend that you get two boxes of swaged balls and a copy of Dutch Schoultz's "Black Powder Accuracy" before you purchase a bullet mold and the casting equipment. Dutch may have passed but his system is still available.
http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

 

[Black_Feather]

Ultimately, @Clanman92 will have to make this decision based on his personal load development. The tolerances of individual barrels seem to vary. So much depends on patch thickness and patch lubricant. Based on the price of bullet molds, most of us will recommend that you get two boxes of swaged balls and a copy of Dutch Schoultz's "Black Powder Accuracy" before you purchase a bullet mold and the casting equipment. Dutch may have passed but his system is still available.
http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

Thanks

 

[Coinneach]

Here's a formula that will help get real close when sighting in a rifle. I use a set of calipers to measure the front sight height off barrel.

Sight radius (distance from front to rear sight) X impact distance from zero / (divided by) distance to target = how much to move/ file sight.
"
Example, 24" (from front to rear sights), X 2"( impact from zero) = 48"divided by 1800" (50 yds. distance to target) =.026" to move to zero.

Thank you, noted.

 

[Black_Feather]

Make sure if your buying to spend the extra 5 bucks like I did on shipping insurance…

 

[frankie]

Just picked up a Gemmer Hawken, and thought I’d offer a review. This was my experience, yours may differ.



Ordered it from it’s new importer in La Grand Oregon, and was pleased to receive it is lightning fast time. Out of the box the fit of barrel into the channel wasn’t too inspiring. A bit of twisting in the forearm developed during shipping and storage perhaps, but that has improved now that the rifle is together. The fore end tip channel required a couple layers of brown fiber packing tape to get even bearing force on both wedges. The front trigger pull is pretty heavy (much more so than my TC Hawken), but after being set, is quite crisp and usable. The metalwork and inletting seemed fine for a factory produced gun in this price range. The rifle came with a simple but sturdy looking rear sight, adjustable for elevation, and a bold front sight. The barrel has a 1 in 60 inch twist, optimized for shooting patched ball.



A casual glance through the sights however showed no light on either side of the front post in the rear sight notch. Zilch. Zero. The rear sight notch was way too narrow, but a few minutes with a set of needle files and cold blue solved that issue. No biggie. At the first range session however, the Hornady .535 diameter ball (pushed with 90 grains of FFG and a 0.015 pre-lubed patch) impacted almost six inches low at 50 yards. And that was with the rear sight set to its maximum elevation. Still, with the conditions being pretty breezy and spreading the group horizontally, the group it shot with nine balls was 1.6 inches. I thought that showed potential. The patches were pristine, with no abrasions or burn-through.



So, back to the workbench, and after applying a micrometer and some high school trigonometry, I was a bit aghast. I basically had to lose almost half of my front sight height to get it to shoot on at fifty with the rear sight set in the middle of its adjustment. So, I filed away. Lots of metal dust and a bit of cold blue later, I was back in business.



Back to the shooting bench. Today, the winds were fairly still and at fifty yards off the bench she put five shots into 0.729 inches. Does that qualify her as “good”? I don’t know. I’m a serious shooter and have a lot of experience in different shooting disciplines, but this is only my third black powder weapon. Suffice it to say that I’m satisfied, and I’ll be dropping some big game this season with this rifle. Probably some small game as well.



Would I buy a Gemmer Hawken again? Yes, absolutely! But anybody doing so had better count on some serious file work. The sights are an issue.View attachment 207860

thanks for posting. Vreat post

 

[longcruise]

Would I buy a Gemmer Hawken again? Yes, absolutely! But anybody doing so had better count on some serious file work. The sights are an issue.

That sight situation was pretty standard on the Lyman sold GPRs as well. I birthed four of them from kits and dealt with the same thing. The kits came with a fixed and adjustable rear. Both were too narrow slotted and IMO the front sights were too thick as well. I filed them thinner too.

But, as you found they are very capable rifles. Actually I think of it as an opportunity and part of the shooter/rifle bonding ritual.

 

[Black_Feather]

Make sure if your buying to spend the extra 5 bucks like I did on shipping insurance…View attachment 216321

Update to my original warning, I received my replacement today and it arrived I damaged, unfortunately I’m returning it also, it had a few glaring machining and sanding issues that I could live with but the stock was twisted and no amount of force would get the barrel into the rifle, on top of that the hammer is broke and won’t uncock at all, not sure if I just have bad luck or what, setting up a return now and going with a different rifle, if someone buys this rifle, you may have better luck but beware, probably best if you built it yourself in kit form, anyways here’s another pic.

 

[Snooterpup]

Not odd at all.

The new importer put his name on it, and. Investarms still has their regular markings.

Great rifle but what a billboard. Geez, serious draw filing and cold blue required in my humble opinion.

 

[yellowhammer]

I can't group that tight at 50 yds with any sidelock I own. Very nice shootin', pard.

 

[Urban Coyote]

Thanks for the report. I've been wondering about these guns since I recognized them as a replacement for the Great Plains Rifle Lyman once marketed. I wished I'd have picked up the Lyman version when they were available. I do own a copy of the Lyman Trade Rifle in .54 and like it. I also have a nib Deer Stalker .50 which I've never fired. It appears to be a very nice gun.

 

[Steve Wagner]

Update to my original warning, I received my replacement today and it arrived I damaged, unfortunately I’m returning it also, it had a few glaring machining and sanding issues that I could live with but the stock was twisted and no amount of force would get the barrel into the rifle, on top of that the hammer is broke and won’t uncock at all, not sure if I just have bad luck or what, setting up a return now and going with a different rifle, if someone buys this rifle, you may have better luck but beware, probably best if you built it yourself in kit form, anyways here’s another pic.View attachment 217831

Wow Trapper, I purchased a beautifully finished Hawken style kit rifle from Terrebonne, OR and it was nearly perfect and shoots great. The set trigger spring cut out in the stock [done at the factory] was a bit too large and it quit working, so I glued in a small shim. Didn't show up until after about 30 shots. Good to go. I don't think I will be going Gemmer any time soon.
I find it interesting that Ardessa can pump out inexpensive [by a lot] rifles that have none of this sight nonsense and shoot well straight out of the box. If they have the skills to build a rifle, working sights aren't rocket science. 1/4" off the front sight ? Just weird.
Yes, I see that the rear sight is not an adjustable, but it's still not that hard-especially at the price. SW

 

[Black_Feather]

Wow Trapper, I purchased a beautifully finished Hawken style kit rifle from Terrebonne, OR and it was nearly perfect and shoots great. The set trigger spring cut out in the stock [done at the factory] was a bit too large and it quit working, so I glued in a small shim. Didn't show up until after about 30 shots. Good to go. I don't think I will be going Gemmer any time soon.
I find it interesting that Ardessa can pump out inexpensive [by a lot] rifles that have none of this sight nonsense and shoot well straight out of the box. If they have the skills to build a rifle, working sights aren't rocket science. 1/4" off the front sight ? Just weird.
Yes, I see that the rear sight is not an adjustable, but it's still not that hard-especially at the price. SW

I’m glad you were able to shim it, that was a bit concerning to me as I had no idea it was like that, I’m glad you love it otherwise. I think with any of these brands, a kit offers the best quality given the time and effort one puts in it, factory made seems to be a hit or miss.

 

[hockeyref]

Gotta ask how tall that front sight started at if you filed a quarter inch off of it.

Granted it was nearly decade ago, but when I built patience” I went fixed rear and didn’t have to take the front down much. Did widen the rear notch a bit.

 

[JMKATL]

Just to restate my position, yes, obviously a FIXED SIGHT rifle needs some extra height in the front sight so that the end user can adjust his Point Of Impact. No reasonable person is debating that.

But this rifle came with an ADJUSTABLE rear sight. Any elevation issue should have been within that range of adjustment. And if filing was needed, it certainly shouldn’t have been nearly a quarter inch of metal.

If we don’t talk about this sloppy engineering nothing will ever get done about it.

All true. I was disappointed with the fat front blade on my Gemmer Hawken. It measures .120, while most other front blades available measure a much thinner .062. As you mentioned, there was no light in the rear buckhorn sight groove. I filed the rear sight groove a bit, but still was not happy. On my CVA Hawken, the front sight is a thin blade, with a round bead-like top. It has a great sight picture. So, I ordered the Bridger Hawken front sight from Muzzleloaders.com, which also fits the Gemmer. It was of the same design. Now I have this great thin front blade, with a round bead on top....fantastic sight picture......think of a dotted i. The rear sight is indeed adjusted very high to compensate, but works well. I'm thinking about inserting some sort of firm wedge under the rear of the rear sight, and tightening down the adjustment screw. For now, it springs like a diving board.

 

[smoothshooter]

Just picked up a Gemmer Hawken, and thought I’d offer a review. This was my experience, yours may differ.



Ordered it from it’s new importer in La Grand Oregon, and was pleased to receive it is lightning fast time. Out of the box the fit of barrel into the channel wasn’t too inspiring. A bit of twisting in the forearm developed during shipping and storage perhaps, but that has improved now that the rifle is together. The fore end tip channel required a couple layers of brown fiber packing tape to get even bearing force on both wedges. The front trigger pull is pretty heavy (much more so than my TC Hawken), but after being set, is quite crisp and usable. The metalwork and inletting seemed fine for a factory produced gun in this price range. The rifle came with a simple but sturdy looking rear sight, adjustable for elevation, and a bold front sight. The barrel has a 1 in 60 inch twist, optimized for shooting patched ball.



A casual glance through the sights however showed no light on either side of the front post in the rear sight notch. Zilch. Zero. The rear sight notch was way too narrow, but a few minutes with a set of needle files and cold blue solved that issue. No biggie. At the first range session however, the Hornady .535 diameter ball (pushed with 90 grains of FFG and a 0.015 pre-lubed patch) impacted almost six inches low at 50 yards. And that was with the rear sight set to its maximum elevation. Still, with the conditions being pretty breezy and spreading the group horizontally, the group it shot with nine balls was 1.6 inches. I thought that showed potential. The patches were pristine, with no abrasions or burn-through.



So, back to the workbench, and after applying a micrometer and some high school trigonometry, I was a bit aghast. I basically had to lose almost half of my front sight height to get it to shoot on at fifty with the rear sight set in the middle of its adjustment. So, I filed away. Lots of metal dust and a bit of cold blue later, I was back in business.



Back to the shooting bench. Today, the winds were fairly still and at fifty yards off the bench she put five shots into 0.729 inches. Does that qualify her as “good”? I don’t know. I’m a serious shooter and have a lot of experience in different shooting disciplines, but this is only my third black powder weapon. Suffice it to say that I’m satisfied, and I’ll be dropping some big game this season with this rifle. Probably some small game as well.



Would I buy a Gemmer Hawken again? Yes, absolutely! But anybody doing so had better count on some serious file work. The sights are an issue.View attachment 207860

The bore may be a little off center on one end.

 

[LowMo]

BTW, Gemmer & Clemens is a corporation doing business as muzzle-loaders.com.
Same company.

https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...ens_inc.016898371f98ac584e4ef5fe7a3a95fc.html