general muzzleloading questions

[Dave Rosenthal]

Bender,

First, welcome to the Forum! I think that it's great that you're starting your son the right way! I started mine with a .22 when he was four. Now he's an 18 year old Eagle Scout, a freshman in college, and can really kick my butt at times with the Lyman Trade Rifle. We love to shoot together and he's become my best friend. May you also be blessed in the same way!

Most 9 year olds don't like the recoil of a Mauser or a Garrand, and the .30-.30 jumps more than the Garrand. If your shooting full power hunting loads in the lever gun, your son should be able to handle 50 grains of 3fg Goex with ease.

Congrats again and welcome once more to the Dark Side! What ever you wind up with will probably have the markings on it that you don't want, so just get over it or be prepared to lay-out lots more cash than you mentioned in this thread.

My advice is to take a look at the trade Rifle. It's got the bad stuff on the barrel, but due to the 28 inch barrel length and the fact that it's a half-stock gun, it's really easy to teach a boy how to clean one! The twist rate is 1 in 48", so it can shoot PRB's AND Maxi-Balls. Maxi's are a little more expensive to shoot, but they are easy enough for a boy to load the gun, under supervision of course. Certainly easier than a very accurate and tight PRB combo! The more that he can do himself, the more he'll stick with the hobby. So if he shows any signs of boredom, try the Maxi's and let him do the loading...he'll be hooked for life!

May you have a lifetime of enjoyment in this hobby together!

Dave

 

[Slamfire]

You too can shoot real black powder, and most folks here will recommend it. You can find several suppliers on the internet. I use Graf & Son, they sell both Goex and Grafs (a private label on a can of Wano powder). You can mix F grades within an order to suit yourself. There is a $20 hazmat fee, charged by the shipper, but spread over a 10 pound order the price is about half of what you'll pay for any of the substitute powders. Welcome aboard. :thumbsup:

 

[bart_anastasi]

Well a word on the reasone for recoil.

Real BP (and the subs) works most efficently at around 7,000 psi that would be 80 - 90 grains of powder with a 175 grain prb.

Your 30-30 works with a presure of 38,000 psi and a 30-06 works with 50,000 psi.

A 30-30 will push a 170 grain bullet at around 2000 fps
A 50 cal with 100 grains of 2f should push a 175 grain prb at around 2000 fps. Same speed less kick due to less pressure and longer acceleration time for bp.

 

[Bender]

going shooting with my son is probably my favorite thing to do these days. Motorcycles, cigars and reloading are my other favorites...

Even though he is only 9 going on 10, he likes "the old stuff". I mean, given a choice between shooting an AR-15 and an old milsurp, he always chooses the old one. He likes guns made out of wood and steel. He's very turned off by "plastic".

He already told me that when he opens his xmas presents, he's gonna open any "long box" first.

His last xmas present was a CZ .22 rifle. Nice wood and metal, high quality. He hates my 10/22 cuz it's "plastic".

After I shoot this old T/C hawken sunday morning, I'll probably start a new thread with any questions I have.

I take it I should put my targets up at 50 yds while I am a BP noob right? I generally shoot at 100 and 200 yds with my milsurps.

edit: glad to see this board is a friendly place. Some boards, on other subjects, seem to have a "snobby" attitude sometimes.

 

[MikeChapin]

well, that sounds good. My son has shot a 30-30 (not mine) and it didn't bother him. I did read that BP is a "slower" recoil than the sharp crack of smokeless. However, I also read that triple 7 has a sharper recoil than BP or pyrodex...
...

I had a Model 94 30-30 that I bought when I was a kid. That thing killed at both ends. If your son can put up with the recoil from that, a BP rifle should be a piece of cake.

 

[roundball]

going shooting with my son is probably my favorite thing to do these days. Motorcycles, cigars and reloading are my other favorites...

Even though he is only 9 going on 10, he likes "the old stuff". I mean, given a choice between shooting an AR-15 and an old milsurp, he always chooses the old one. He likes guns made out of wood and steel. He's very turned off by "plastic".

He already told me that when he opens his xmas presents, he's gonna open any "long box" first.

His last xmas present was a CZ .22 rifle. Nice wood and metal, high quality. He hates my 10/22 cuz it's "plastic".

After I shoot this old T/C hawken sunday morning, I'll probably start a new thread with any questions I have.

I take it I should put my targets up at 50 yds while I am a BP noob right? I generally shoot at 100 and 200 yds with my milsurps.

edit: glad to see this board is a friendly place. Some boards, on other subjects, seem to have a "snobby" attitude sometimes.

IMO, for the first time out you could just set up at 25 yards and enjoy...get used to it, get it dialed in, easier to see results, etc.

PS: A stack of cheap paper plates from Walmart make excellent inexpensive targets...make a colored 2" aim point in the middle with a red marker pen or something

 

[oldwolf]

Just go here and calculate the recoil impulse for your rifles.
[url] http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp[/url]

 

[Bender]

what's a good "general" book on muzzleloading, not for me but for my son? He's an excellent reader, but if it's too "dry" he won't be interested. Lots of pics and not too deep.

If its just page after page of tech stuff, he would be bored.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Try the latest edition of Sam Fadala's " The Complete Black Powder Handbook". as far as books go.

I think a better source of information is Bob Spenser's Bakc powder Notebook.
[url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html[/url]

I bet your son is into computers, and he may actually enjoy being able to read good materials on the computer rather than out of a book.

The problems with published books is that they are almost out of date by the time the publisher gets them out to the bookstores and dealers. It has always been that way, but these day, everything seems to change so much faster. Its a royal PITA for authors, I might add.

 

[Bender]

lol, yep, I can hardly get him off his computer or my computer.

Yes, you're right. I buy very few book anymore. I check the used stores sometimes for cheap books.

 

[Robert Egler]

I have a Winchester mod 94 30-30 from when I was teen. That gun actually saved my life once, (a long story :yakyak: from which I shall spare you), and you couldn't offer me enough money to sell that gun!

I've always liked the lines of the mod 94. But I do agree, my 50 cal flintlock with 80g 2f has a much softer kick.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

If you can, do what roundball said! Start at 25 yards, see where it hits, adjust the sight to knock-out the X-ring, THEN move it back to 50 yards. It's easier, takes less time in the long-run and since you're just getting used to the rifle, you'll be able to see where you're hitting and adjust point of aim to alter point of impact. Then move the sights, IF needed! Remember to do EVERYTHING THE SAME! Same patch, same powder, same quantity of powder, same point of aim, head the same place on the stock, etc., etc.! Take two or three shots, then move the entire group where you want it to go.

If you're not using an over-powder wad or card of some type, don't be surprised if the first shot or two (the fouling shots) is in a different place than the rest. This is normal, and you will learn with time not to base a sight adjustment on just this first shot!

Have a good time with the boy, and let us know how you make out!

Dave
Competitive BP Shooter & NRA Life Member