Genuine Parker-Hale barrel markings - roll marks and proof stamps

[TFoley]

I started to purchase one of these rifles many years ago. I thought it was to expensive back then but now I could kick myself for not taking the plunge and getting the rifle! The British made the rifle and the southern rebels made it historic!

The rifle was not British, it was English. The Scots and Welsh had nothing to do with it, since Manchester is in the North West of England.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

As an addition. I have an unused Colour hardened P/h Lock plate that is stamped 1858 over ENFIELD which was for a 2 band Short (Naval) rifle I believe. Came from a reliable source. OLD DOG..

 

[Steveoko922]

My 2 bander is in the 29xxx range. It has a ph marked barrel top and bottom as well as a ph marked stock?? A faint dg or ddg is to the right of the large SN on the breach. The breach is marked with a crown over BP on top near the tang. What do i have? It has a 1:48 twist. No other Italian proof marks on it. I have a genuine 3 band to compare. Did the Italians have that many real parker hale barrels left?

 

[muzzlecap]

Not all stocks got branded with the Parker Hale cartouche. In my collection I have an unfired 3 band 1863. The serial number is well within the known Parker Hale range being only 4 numbers in the 6000's range. It has the English proof marks and a date stamp of 1988. The stock has no cartouche. A few years back, on another forum, a fellow was describing his as also not having a cartouche. It was within the serial number range as well and if I remember correctly it may have also been an 1853.

 

[TFoley]

My 2 bander is in the 29xxx range. It has a ph marked barrel top and bottom as well as a ph marked stock?? A faint dg or ddg is to the right of the large SN on the breach. The breach is marked with a crown over BP on top near the tang. What do i have? It has a 1:48 twist. No other Italian proof marks on it. I have a genuine 3 band to compare. Did the Italians have that many real parker hale barrels left?

Very unlikely, given that Parker-Hale did not churn out barrels by the tens of thousand for anything, let alone a niche market item like a percussion rifle. You say it has no other Italian proof marks on it - do you mean that it has SOME Italian proof marks on it? We really need to see the markings, if you could do that for us.

 

[TFoley]

As an addition. I have an unused Colour hardened P/h Lock plate that is stamped 1858 over ENFIELD which was for a 2 band Short (Naval) rifle I believe. Came from a reliable source. OLD DOG..View attachment 54194View attachment 54195

Wow, around twenty more parts and you'll have a complete rifle!!!! Better have it on your FAC though!

 

[Steveoko922]

Very unlikely, given that Parker-Hale did not churn out barrels by the tens of thousand for anything, let alone a niche market item like a percussion rifle. You say it has no other Italian proof marks on it - do you mean that it has SOME Italian proof marks on it? We really need to see the markings, if you could do that for us.

I will do that later today. Did the early euro arms rifles at least have the 1:48 twist?

 

[TFoley]

I will do that later today. Did the early euro arms rifles at least have the 1:48 twist?

I'm sorry - I can't help you here. The Parker-Hale barrels were around 1:20 - 22, I bleeve, like the real ones. So IF you have a real P-H barrel, even though the remainder of the gun might be Italian, then it will be the same.

 

[Stantheman86]

My P-H 3-Bander , #4267 ? I assume that falls into the range of the "real" Birmingham produced barrels.

 

[TFoley]

View attachment 54257
View attachment 54258

My P-H 3-Bander , #4267 ? I assume that falls into the range of the "real" Birmingham produced barrels.

Sure do. A clearer full-on image of the markings on the breech could date it, too. That would be good for Mr Minshall and me.

 

[Steveoko922]

I'm stumped...seems to have british proofs...but with odd serial numbers and the euro arms dgg????

 

[Dude]

Thanks for starting this thread tac!

I'm interested in finding one of these guns but don't see any for sale. What's a fair price for a decent one? You told me $750 on the low end - but up to how much on the upper end?

 

[muzzlecap]

I'm stumped...seems to have british proofs...but with odd serial numbers and the euro arms dgg????

I think your serial number is 2919. The other numbers look like they were stamped in later and aren't even the same kind of script.

 

[Steveoko922]

I think your serial number is 2919. The other numbers look like they were stamped in later and aren't even the same kind of script.

Wow, your right...I didn't even realize that.

 

[Steveoko922]

So the RC1 indicates it was made in 1990. If the 4 at the end of my serial numbers is some wacky add on when euro arms got it, then its entirely possible this is a genuine Parker hale p58 SN 2919.

 

[muzzlecap]

That chart I believe are proof date years. Your serial number isn't that high so I would think the gun was made before 1990. Same as my gun that is in the 6000's. I believe those dates are when the guns went through proof. The guns were likely made earlier. I have seen shotguns where the production date was a couple of years before the proof date.

 

[Steveoko922]

Any clue as why the 4 and the dgg are on there?

 

[muzzlecap]

Any clue as why the 4 and the dgg are on there?

Don't know. But when you look at the chart and the proof date codes stamped on the guns in this thread, things seem out of whack. There is an early 3 digit serial numbered gun and the proof date code puts it 1987? Another with a higher serial number of 8993 has a proof date code of 1980? My gun has serial number 673x and a proof date of 1988. Your serial number of 2919 has a proof date of 1990. What is the reason for early guns having such late proof date codes compared to guns with much higher serial numbers having earlier dates?. I don't believe that chart is accurate at actually determining when the gun was made. Or else they had barrels laying around a long time before finally assembling a gun or sending it for proof.

 

[Stantheman86]

I recall reading on this forum that Parker-Hale sold off a bunch of semi-complete barrels that might possibly have been made up into complete rifles using Euroarms locks and stocks. The barrels would have to be numbered since in many countries the barrel is "the gun".

Smoothbore Parker-Hales exist too.

The "Musketoons" are way more common in the US than any other Birmingham produced P-H probably due to their popularity with Skirmishers in the 1970s- 80s . A lot of them are getting old or unfortunately passing away , and the rifles are ending up on the market.

I recall reading about the Birmingham produced Enfields in the 1990s, they weren't that "old" yet and once in a while a magazine like Shotgun News would do an article on them .

 

[Muley Gil]

I have a 3 band P-H #631x, a 2 band P-H #781x and a P-H musketoon # 466x. I was a young skirmisher with the N-SSA when the Parker-Hales came out and I lusted mightily. I was finally able to buy my three in the middle 2000s. I have used the 2 band and the musketoon for skirmishing and both are very accurate. I've never gotten around to shooting the 3 band, but intend to soon.