Genuine Parker-Hale barrel markings - roll marks and proof stamps

[Rudyard]

Interesting research, As a Branch of the MLAGB. We found the two band the best. The Carbines useless & the three bander's ok but less handy . I just had my old Volunteer original three band. But being more into patched ball I went that route mostly . I do have serial numbers for an 53 pattern & a Whitworth I've owned briefly Ile dig them out for you .
Rudyard

 

[ResearchPress]

So the RC1 indicates it was made in 1990. If the 4 at the end of my serial numbers is some wacky add on when euro arms got it, then its entirely possible this is a genuine Parker hale p58 SN 2919.

If it was no. 2919 that would put production in the mid 1970s which is inconsistent with the proof. Number 29194 is consistent with those that appear to have been assembled by Euroarms, when they acquired the P-H name and some plant/tooling. The proof year 1990 is of that period.

David

 

[ResearchPress]

I have a 3 band P-H #631x, a 2 band P-H #781x and a P-H musketoon # 466x.

If you could direct message me the full numbers it would be most helpful (and the proof date codes if to hand). Production switched in serial numbering increadibly frequently and the only way to start to make sense of it is with full serial numbers and proof codes. I have around 650 serial numbers and type of rifle, but maybe only 10% have given me the proof codes - I appreciated that this means removing barrel from stock and is not something that some do with any regularity.

Thanks,

David

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Yes Tom, I do have the rest of the bits, mostly of my own making except the tube. A P/H long Henry sleeved up to M/R diameters by the late D.M.. Proof house managed to stamp it .541" not .451" Date circled K B over 1. 1984.. Never bothered to finish it. Too busy making the chain for P/H nipple protectors and Flint Locks & it is on FAC..

 

[muzzlecap]

I recall reading on this forum that Parker-Hale sold off a bunch of semi-complete barrels that might possibly have been made up into complete rifles using Euroarms locks and stocks. The barrels would have to be numbered since in many countries the barrel is "the gun".

Smoothbore Parker-Hales exist too.

The "Musketoons" are way more common in the US than any other Birmingham produced P-H probably due to their popularity with Skirmishers in the 1970s- 80s . A lot of them are getting old or unfortunately passing away , and the rifles are ending up on the market.

I recall reading about the Birmingham produced Enfields in the 1990s, they weren't that "old" yet and once in a while a magazine like Shotgun News would do an article on them .

The story I heard is when Euroarms took over they finished making guns out of parts that were left over. But those guns should have serial numbers well above the numbers that have been posted in this thread. Before that time. I cannot see Parker Hale selling barrels to someone else and leaving their name etc. on them. I have 5 Parker Hale rifles. My 1853 without the stock cartouche is the same in every way as the others as far as build characteristics, and the serial number is well within the range of actual Parker Hale made guns. It just lacks the cartouche. Why, guess we'll never know. Could be as simple as maybe a new hire forgot to stamp some guns.

 

[TFoley]

Interesting research, As a Branch of the MLAGB. We found the two band the best. The Carbines useless & the three bander's ok but less handy . I just had my old Volunteer original three band. But being more into patched ball I went that route mostly . I do have serial numbers for an 53 pattern & a Whitworth I've owned briefly Ile dig them out for you . Rudyard

Great stuff, Rudyard!! Many thanks.

I would opine that the two-band rifles, often called Naval rifles, shoot better because they are not just cut-down three-band rifles, but actually have a heavier X-section and are therefore somewhat stiffer. I'll be finding out for myself next year - now I have my renewed FAC back I can go looking for one. I'll be adding one of my S*i*e*s, the Whitworth, and a two-bander. The S*i*e* is a short rifle, BTW.

 

[TFoley]

Thanks for starting this thread tac!

I'm interested in finding one of these guns but don't see any for sale. What's a fair price for a decent one? You told me $750 on the low end - but up to how much on the upper end?

I HAVE seen them going for up to $1300 where YOU live. Here in UK they can often be about that price, but they are still a rarity. Roger Hale told me that most of them went to the USA, I believed him - I had to wait three years for mine. One major dealer here has had one on commission sale for a long time at a price just short of a thousand pounds, but a friend who made the long drive to see it was highly unimpressed by what he found. Like any gun, you really need to see it and hold it and give it a good overview with bore-light.

Remember, too, that the Pedersoli replication is also about that figure, and while it looks nice, in spite of the cost there have been posters here showing that QC is not as good as you might hope for. At least, just holding a P-H in your hand, one that has been loved, will make you put the Pedersoli version back on the rack' toot sweet'.

 

[muzzlecap]

will make you put the Pedersoli version back on the rack' toot sweet'.

I had to chuckle. Haven't heard that expression for awhile.
Here in Canada, the typical "Muskatoon" goes for around $600.00 -$700.00 unless new in box. Beat up examples for less. 2 and 3 bands around the $800.00- $1000.00 and a Whitworth around $1600.00.

 

[TFoley]

I had to chuckle. Haven't heard that expression for awhile. Here in Canada, the typical "Muskatoon" goes for around $600.00 -$700.00 unless new in box. Beat up examples for less. 2 and 3 bands around the $800.00- $1000.00 and a Whitworth around $1600.00.

I'm old, gimme a break, eh?

 

[Melchi577]

my local gun shop blue fox glade which is also my favorite, has a couple of muskatoons in stock £175 (around $235) for the poorer finish and £275 (around $370) for the one described 'in good condition' not seen them myself but they a good bunch to deal with.

 

[Stantheman86]

The Birmingham Parker-Hales are certainly the way to go , prices are right in line. If not less, than a Pedersoli and there is no comparison as far as the quality.

You can almost always turn up a Musketoon on GunBroker . 2-Bander P58s are the most popular for those who know what they're looking at. I see very few P-H 3-Banders.

 

[Rudyard]

PH carbine nos 1525.8151. short rifle nos 6397.(could be three band this 1823) no 1511 ,6397 three bands. Nos H1570 was a volunteer, W231 a WW 4021 not sure think carbine I had a WW given me never fired it sold to Dixons plus had a three band but seemingly didn't note number and a Carbine escaped recording .. Trust that is of interest. What might be of interest is PH put so many 451 & 577 brls through, that calibre was cheaper to proof so I put my 45 round ball & any same cal through for that load, Didn't blow any up.
Rudyard

 

[Dude]

Thanks TFoley. I can certainly understand now why you started this thread rather than answering my questions in a PM.

 

[TFoley]

Thanks TFoley. I can certainly understand now why you started this thread rather than answering my questions in a PM.

Hey, 'cmon, I did that too!

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Confused OLD DOG.. In Post 1 T Foley writes :- Some 3 bands were marked with "H" for Henry in the serial No.. Did P/H rifle a .577 as well as .451 with Henry rifling ?? OLD DOG..

 

[Steveoko922]

The Birmingham Parker-Hales are certainly the way to go , prices are right in line. If not less, than a Pedersoli and there is no comparison as far as the quality.

You can almost always turn up a Musketoon on GunBroker . 2-Bander P58s are the most popular for those who know what they're looking at. I see very few P-H 3-Banders.

My PH 3 band is a 6xxx. Its seen ALOT of love. I saved it from a civil war reactor who didn't care for her properly. Chipped stock, frosty bore, worn blueing and finish. Spent a little money to freshen her up and she still harvests a deer year after year. With a steady aim, 300 yard hits on a 3x4 plate is guaranteed.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Thanks for a informative thread.I have a neighbor that has a P.H. 2band with a the markings described in this thread. The gun is in pristine shape shot very little. If he were to want to sell it to me what do you all think would be a fair ballpark price. Again thanks for the information on so many subjects.

 

[Stantheman86]

I don't know what British prices are like but any Birmingham produced P58 in decent shape will sell for $1200+ in the US.

There's a Musketoon on GunBroker for $1400 , if it's a Birmingham production and in Excellent condition that's not out of line.

L

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I don't know what British prices are like but any Birmingham produced P58 in decent shape will sell for $1200+ in the US.

There's a Musketoon on GunBroker for $1400 , if it's a Birmingham production and in Excellent condition that's not out of line.

L

Thank you for the reply

 

[user 57640]

Note to ALL P-H users and shooters - it's a great idea to use a thin copper washer under the nipple to act as a mechanical barrier between the usually copper-beryllium original nipple and the bolster. AND a teeny dab of Copper-slip or similar on the threads ere you put the nipple back in.

Image from Peter Dyson's webpages...they cost us £1 each here in UK, but no doubt Lowes/Crappy Tires/Home Depot/Machine Mart has got something cheaper.

View attachment 54094

Thanks