Getting on my feet

[david lindberg]

I'm about to get a musket (Brown Bess (yes, I am aware that it's a bit big to start off with)). I need to know what all to get, and for some of the more unusual, how to use it. I know I need shot, powder, patches, some kind of lubricant (but what?) and some kind of cleaning materials (but what kind?). What else do I need?
Thank you!

 

[Wes/Tex]

:imo: The Bess isn't a bad choice if you keep in mind that it's a large bore fowler and treat it as such. The only "bad" thing is that like most military muskets, the cock is large and travels through a longer arc. Time between trigger pull and ignition will be a tiny bit longer so if you're pass shooting at waterfowl or trying you hand at dove, etc., you'll have to remember to follow-through.

As for shooting ball, your best bet will be to measure the bore and get or cast balls at least .020" smaller than bore diameter. Actually, in the real guns the British used a ball about .690" so they could continue to shoot as the fowling built up. Patching the ball will be a plus for modern shooters and you might start about .015" with patching and make sure it's well lubed but not dripping wet. Have found about 80 grains of FFg to work pretty good but your gun may like something else...not a bad reason to tell the boss, "Well, dear, i have to shoot again today to find the right powder charge" :thumbsup:

As for the rest, some will depend on whether you're just shooting a big bore fowler or going to try the re-enacting game. If you're just starting out you'll need a powder measure, probably a combo pick/brush to clean the pan, some sort of holder for the powder (whether flask, horn, or pre-rolled paper cartridges is up to you). If you are going to do this fairly often, a spring vise for the lock is helpful, as are some sort of turn-screws (screwdrivers) depending on your use. I'm sure others will have more to say but these are a few of the basics. Obviously, you'll need patching, wads & ards to shoot both shot and ball. Outfits like Track can provide these in the right size. At some point you may decide to make your own but for starts it may be much easier to use "store-bought" till you find the size you Bess likes best.

As for cleaning, if you shoot-you clean. There's no putting it off with muzzleloaders. You may hear many ideas about what to use but I'll just say this. There is nothing in black powder residue that isn't water soluble and can't be removed with plain water...I've done it for years. A little detergent may make things a bit easier but I've never found much difference. Just be sure the bore's clean before going to the oil/grease for storage. Some folks are now praising Ballistol and that may be one of the better products currently available. It's a cleaning product developed by the German Army during WWI and has been used continually since. Seems to work well mixed 50/50 for patch lube and straight for cleaning/storage. As for lube, I've used Crisco, tallow and even salt-free lard. Olive oil is popular too, mixed with beeswax...seems that if it's slippery somebody uses it. My only take on it is KISS...keep-it-simple-stupid!! That's me...Senor Stupid. Just shoot and have fun but remember to clean up after. Big bore guns are relative forgiving about patching, wads, etc. just don't try to break the speed-of-light!! Good luck and don't be bashful about asking questions. Some of us greybeards still have all 10 fingers, we must know something, though don't bet money! :crackup:

 

[musketman]

I know I need shot, powder, patches, some kind of lubricant (but what?) and some kind of cleaning materials (but what kind?). What else do I need?
Thank you!

You will need a cleaning jag, a vent pick is a good item to make, find a round steel bar that fits into the whole in the top jaw screw on the lock, this will give more leverage when tightening the flint...

You will need a thicker ball starter, I use a plunger from a wine bottle corker, it has a 5/8 inch diameter shaft...

I use .715 and .735 round balls in my bess...

 

[Redleg130th]

to add to the stuff already mentioned,


With a DP Bess I am using .735 ball.

I have been using paper cartridges for my bess and it works well. I cut a piece of paper to 120mm x 90mm and cut an angle on the opposite side of the 120mm side to 70mm. You will have to play with the dimensions to fit your stuff.

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it will look roughly like that. I have a felt marker that just happens to be arround 3/4 in and I roll the paper in a cylinder, back the marker off about an 25mm and twist the end and smash it flat. Then put the ball in and your powder behind that. Squeeze the tail flat then fold it twice into a tall triangle, it will still be a tail. Tuck the tail into the cylinder.

To load, tear the tail off, prime the pan, pour the powder, drop the ball (you may have to tear the paper to get the ball to drop). I have been stuffing the paper in after the ball to keep the ball from rolling arround - I have seen no documentation that calls for stuffing the paper though, so if someone could verify that this is an authentic practice please do, it makes sense to me though and it keeps fouling down compared to not doing it.

I enjoy shooting this way as is is very easy to load and the Army used cartridges so it feels more authentic to me.

I have not been using any lube since that turns into a big mess using cartridges, but a baby wipe on a bore punch every few shots helps. I fired about 20 shots using cartridges before the bore was too fouled to load easily without lube.

Anyway, I enjoy this method and it could be something you want to try.

 

[musketman]

to add to the stuff already mentioned,


With a DP Bess I am using .735 ball.

I have been using paper cartridges for my bess and it works well. I cut a piece of paper to 120mm x 90mm and cut an angle on the opposite side of the 120mm side to 70mm. You will have to play with the dimensions to fit your stuff.

|\
| \
| |
| |
____

it will look roughly like that. I have a felt marker that just happens to be arround 3/4 in and I roll the paper in a cylinder, back the marker off about an 25mm and twist the end and smash it flat. Then put the ball in and your powder behind that. Squeeze the tail flat then fold it twice into a tall triangle, it will still be a tail. Tuck the tail into the cylinder.

To load, tear the tail off, prime the pan, pour the powder, drop the ball (you may have to tear the paper to get the ball to drop). I have been stuffing the paper in after the ball to keep the ball from rolling arround - I have seen no documentation that calls for stuffing the paper though, so if someone could verify that this is an authentic practice please do, it makes sense to me though and it keeps fouling down compared to not doing it.

 

[arilar]

tell the boss, "Well, dear, i have to shoot again today to find the right powder charge" :thumbsup:
keep-it-simple!

David,
As said above you just has to experiment to find the right combination. Myself shooting a Swedish military musket modell 1826 (original) and only target-shooting. I dont shoot in winter-climate and is using tap-water to "lube" the patches. Still dripping when placed at the muzzle. Between bullet and powder the same volume Polenta as volume powder.
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[mike alexandre]

All really good advise above. Do get a good loading/stuffing rod. I've used both paper cartidges and patch ball. Ball size is .720 with .020 patch and moose snot on the patch, no cleaning over 15 shots required. I have also used .735 ball and .015 patch.
The paper roll idea I use slightly differantly. The bullet is dropped into the paper tube and then tied below the head. Load powder ( 90 g of TPPH) coat the area under the head of the ball with a fingure tip gob of lube, load paper tube tail first and ram home ( mark your rammer so you know when the ball is seated properly) The paper now helps seal the gas. Clean the pan, wipe the flint and frizzen and prick the vent each time you load. Use a fine powder in the pan and welcome to Bess firing.

 

[rschissler]

So are you guys saying that after the powder, you drop the ball, and then insert the patch material? I thought it was supposed to be the other way around, in that the patch material goes after the powder, and then the ball.

I'm a complete novice at this and have yet to fire a flintlock, so I really want to know what I am doing when the time comes.

 

[mike alexandre]

Redleg 130 is saying he puts the ball on top of the powder and then the paper scrunched up. I'm saying you put the powder in then you put the ball wrapped in paper as discussed in. Therefore some of the paper ie the tail of the tube will be between the ball and the powder. Please come back if you need more info.

 

[sherpadoug]

If you dump the powder, then just crush the paper around the ball and shove the paper in tail first, 90% of the paper is between the powder and ball. Try it a few times and you will see what works.

 

[rschissler]

Do you use a ball starter when doing this? Another thing is that I haven't been able to find a ball starter that is rated .75 caliber for using with a brown bess.

 

[musketman]

Do you use a ball starter when doing this? Another thing is that I haven't been able to find a ball starter that is rated .75 caliber for using with a brown bess.

I use the plunger only from a Treen bottle corker, it is about .680 in diamiter, works like a charm for my Brown Bess...

 

[mike alexandre]

Try making one from a length of wood dowel. The rest of the length can be used as a rammer.

 

[Boonetract]

Once you get the hang of loading, get rid of that short starter (One extra piece of junk taking up room in a perfectly good shooting bag). Buy roundies that can be patched and pressed in with your thumb. If you don't you can count on loosing your short starter some day and having a dickens of a time loading your musket. It also adds an un-necessary step in the loading process. My .02.

 

[Stumpkiller]

What Bob said.

Why use a nice, relaxing smoothie if you're going to make it as big a pain as a rifle? I never use a short starter for a smoothbore. In fact, I seldom use one with my rifle unless it's a little 1-1/2" ball starter for poking 'em out of a loading block or very tight target loads.

:relax:

 

[rschissler]

Okay, I think that answers that. Instead of buying a ball starter, I can make a wood dowel thingy to start out with.

Another question is this: I've read somewhere that you should prime the pan so that it is about 1/3 full with powder. Is this reliable, or do you need a precisely measured amount of powder for the pan, and if so how much?

 

[Rat]

No offense to DL, or MM after his excellent post on making the paper cartridges...but for someone totally green I would think he should forget that for starting out, just patch a ball with a lubed patch and load it over the powder.??

My .58 starter works fine on Bess, they don't have to be real caliber specific...but yikes I never thought about losing the darn thing when way up the mountain or something...!! I suppose I could get a ball in anyhow...but it might be a bit of a struggle. Now I gots some re-thinking to do here.

:hmm:

Priming the pan is very UN-precise. The important thing is NOT to cover up the touch-hole with the prime.

Rat

 

[Rebel]

I have a leather pocket sticthed to the side of my bag long enough for my short starter. I have a hole drilled throught the end of the starter with a leather thong going through it and attached to the bag. It is just long enough to get the starter up to muzzle height for reloading, and i don't have to worry about loosing it.

 

[Boonetract]

I think priming is another interesting area. I prime strait from the horn, and haven't used a priming horn for the last ten years. But let me qualify that by saying, 3f primes better than 2f, and lots of guys who use Bessie's for hunting prime with 4f. When I prime, I drop about 1/3 of a pan full to the outside of the pan, away from the touch hole. This has sped up ignition for me greatly. I don't know, but believe the shape of the pan actually throws the flash back at the touch hole.

Once you get a couple hundred balls through the gun, learn to roll cartridges like the example above. I think its very important that once you own a BP weapon, you learn to use it the way it was historically intended to be used. You owe it to your Bess.

 

[mike alexandre]

What Bob says is good info, pan priming is not an exact science. Some guns like around a half a pan some more. Certainly the best ignition is supposed to happen when the pan is 1/3 to 1/2 full with the pile higher towards the outer edge and the touch hole clear. This is a very good place to start. However some guns require different set ups and some of this will depend on the size and position of the touch hole. Best thing to do is to go and try the above first.