1803 Harpers Ferry Sau Paulo repro. When I first got it, sear would land in half cock notch on the tumbler almost every time. I removed the sear and squared and polished the knife edge. Now I can get about 200 successful shots before it starts getting stuck in the half cock position. Last night, I squared the knife edge and polished it with a leather strop. All seems fine again. Is there something I can do to fix this? Maybe heat treat the sear or polish the tumbler. Anyone have any thoughts? The number 110 is stamped on two places inside the lock. Maybe I can find a replacement part that works better. Many thanks.
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Getting stuck at half cock
- Thread starter connerm
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Does yore lock have a "fly" in it? If it does, the fly should allow the "nose" of the sear to ride over the half-cock notch when the lock is fired.
Some locks without a fly, will "catch" in the half-cock notch if the trigger is pulled very gently and the shooter use's "too-short" a trigger pull. In other words, some locks without a fly, require a smooth pull of the trigger with follow-through.
Some locks without a fly, will "catch" in the half-cock notch if the trigger is pulled very gently and the shooter use's "too-short" a trigger pull. In other words, some locks without a fly, require a smooth pull of the trigger with follow-through.
No fly. Do you think a retrofit would be too much trouble? Your observation about slow or light trigger pull is right on. I also have a Rem 700 that has a nice tuned trigger. Getting my trigger finger used to the 1803 after a season of shooting the 700 is very tough. Back to the fly. Do you think I could make something myself? Can you suggest a picture somewhere on the web to give me some ideas? Thank you so much.
Guest
If your tumbler was not machined for a fly a retrofit would be virtually impossible, especially if the tumbler is hardned, as it should be. Sometimes the fly is not fitted properly, and does not swing freely to do its job. A bit of polishing will free it up if that is the case.
You might want to look into the L&R common lock, or their 1803 lock as a replacement for the production part.
The other thing you could try is a modification of the lip of the half cock notch shaving just enough to clear the nose of the sear at trigger pull. You can't remove much or you will remove the integrity of the half cock as a safty. I'm suprised that the firearm does not have a fly in the tunbler. If it is machined for one there may have been a mistake in assembly of the lock and the fly left out.
You might want to look into the L&R common lock, or their 1803 lock as a replacement for the production part.
The other thing you could try is a modification of the lip of the half cock notch shaving just enough to clear the nose of the sear at trigger pull. You can't remove much or you will remove the integrity of the half cock as a safty. I'm suprised that the firearm does not have a fly in the tunbler. If it is machined for one there may have been a mistake in assembly of the lock and the fly left out.
This link shows a fly and tumbler somewhat up close, it also shows the notch that the fly rides in...
http://users.potlatch.com/bluethistle/bnb/flintlock.htm
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The 1803 repro does not have a fly. Nor the originals. About all you can do is what Ghost suggested as far as triming down the half cock notch. If the lock works right for a while, then you have to repolish to keep it going it sounds like the sear and tumbler are soft. You should be able to just barely cut it with a file, acually just barely scratch it. If you can cut it, it is too soft and needs to be either rehardened or case hardened after you make the adjustments to it.
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Luddite,.... I agree with Ghost, retro-fit'n a "fly" to yore tumbler isn't an option. Track of The Wolf gives the measurements of,... 5.25 X .99" for the 1803 Harper's Ferry flintock in ther catalog, this is a qulity lock with a "fly" in the tumbler, and might be close to a "drop-in" in yore rifle.
As a last resort, you could grind an "upward sweep" on the bottom of yore half-cock notch (create'n deflection of the sear-nose), but this usualy results in the hammer sit'n "forward some" (if you take off enuff to do do any good) while in the half-cock notch and reduces the "clearance" between the front-edge of the flint and frizzen-face (you might have to trim yore flints before you can use'em).
Anyway,... those are a couple'a "options", other than aquire'n a new habit of "trigger-pull'n"!!
As a last resort, you could grind an "upward sweep" on the bottom of yore half-cock notch (create'n deflection of the sear-nose), but this usualy results in the hammer sit'n "forward some" (if you take off enuff to do do any good) while in the half-cock notch and reduces the "clearance" between the front-edge of the flint and frizzen-face (you might have to trim yore flints before you can use'em).
Anyway,... those are a couple'a "options", other than aquire'n a new habit of "trigger-pull'n"!!
Thank you for all the comments. Great brains on this site. The sear was pretty soft. It only took a couple of strokes on a whetstone to square it up. Then, some red jeweler's rouge on a leather strop and it was like a mirror. Sounds like the sear may need to be heat treated again. Thanks to all.
Ok guys, I checked the Track of the Wolf page and noticed they sell individual parts. I'm not trying to take the cheap way out, but do you think buying a couple of the internal parts might work, i.e., tumbler, fly, sear, screws? Even if the price of individual parts approaches the cost of a complete lock, it is still mostly my original lock which sort of means something to a squirrel like me. If the concensus here is that it wouldn't be worth it to buy some of the internal parts, I'd concede and think about buying the whole shooting match. Of course all this after checking the hardness of my current parts. Do you suppose the lock plate from Track of the Wolf is already case hardened?
Guest
Luddite,.... I doubt thet yore "bridle" has exactly the same screw-pattern, or exactly the same size tumbler-hole, as the replacements. Thet, and none of the replacement parts come "hardened".
I'd never reccomend try'n to "mix-match" lock-plate and parts. (it'd probly drive you as "nuts",... as the rest of us here! : ::
I'd never reccomend try'n to "mix-match" lock-plate and parts. (it'd probly drive you as "nuts",... as the rest of us here! :
::You replace parts on your car too, and it is YOUR original car... Right?
Same thing applies here, back in the days of Lewis & Clark, they took a gunsmith along with them to keep the firearms in top working order, some parts were modified to work from other guns to keep their weapons shooting...
TwoShadows
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Howdy Mr Luddite.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above info for you. While the contract rifle was one of if not THE first attempt at standardizing parts to make them interchangeable, they still required the gunsmith to make minor adjustments.
Food for thought:
Many situation woodswalks require that you carry supplies as though you going on a longhunt etc. One of the common questions is "Do you have spare gun parts?"...If you replace the original lock with another, then the whole spare lock could go in the haversack for that purpose.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above info for you. While the contract rifle was one of if not THE first attempt at standardizing parts to make them interchangeable, they still required the gunsmith to make minor adjustments.
Food for thought:
Many situation woodswalks require that you carry supplies as though you going on a longhunt etc. One of the common questions is "Do you have spare gun parts?"...If you replace the original lock with another, then the whole spare lock could go in the haversack for that purpose.
Guest
I have one of the L&R common locks on a 1797 copy of a contract rifle I built several years ago. At that time the internal parts were stated as being from the small Siler flintlock(tumbler, fly, sear, springs). I think I bought it from Track of the Wolf. The lock plate is not case hardened and probably wasen't on the origional 1803, I haven't checked. By the time those guys fired those guns a few times and carried them for a day or two the locks would have taken that same darkly burned look they get today when we do the same thing. They didn't stop every night, boil water and clean guns. The L&C rifles were probably in the white when issued, don't worry about origional condition on the repro, It isn't an exact copy anyway, just a close enough match to get by.
Luddite: Your ease in using a whet stone on the tumbler does not indicate it is too soft. A whetstone can easily sharpen or grind steel which is in the mid to high Rockwell 60s.
The test to see if the tumbler is too soft is to use a file. It should just barely make a scratch or mark. The files teeth are Rockwell 65 or harder while the tumbler (if properly hardened and tempered) will be somewhere in the Rockwell 50s. (The higher the number, the harder the material).
As was suggested by a score of others, the belly of the tumbler (the area under the half cock notch) needs to be ground back a little.
By a little, I mean NOT MORE than .010 (about the thickness of 3 pieces of paper). The reason for this being so small is because you will be removing the shoulder that the nose of the sear needs to engage when the lock is set to the half cock position. IMO this engagement should be about .030 or 1/32 of an inch or greater. If the notch is too shallow the gun will be unsafe.
As small as .010 is, it can make a big difference in whether the sear nose clears or clips the notch as it flys by during firing. (The old line about "Missed it by THAT much" is very fitting for this situation).
The test to see if the tumbler is too soft is to use a file. It should just barely make a scratch or mark. The files teeth are Rockwell 65 or harder while the tumbler (if properly hardened and tempered) will be somewhere in the Rockwell 50s. (The higher the number, the harder the material).
As was suggested by a score of others, the belly of the tumbler (the area under the half cock notch) needs to be ground back a little.
By a little, I mean NOT MORE than .010 (about the thickness of 3 pieces of paper). The reason for this being so small is because you will be removing the shoulder that the nose of the sear needs to engage when the lock is set to the half cock position. IMO this engagement should be about .030 or 1/32 of an inch or greater. If the notch is too shallow the gun will be unsafe.
As small as .010 is, it can make a big difference in whether the sear nose clears or clips the notch as it flys by during firing. (The old line about "Missed it by THAT much" is very fitting for this situation).
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