Gluing leather to flint

[Elzay]

Fred says he gets much more life out of his flints using the process. I've been reading his stuff for quite awhile now and have come to regard what he says as provably valid. I'm quite certain he knows more nuance about what makes flint guns work well than most of us ever will !

I don't think anyone here besides you an me knows who Fred Stutzenberger is.... pretty sad. I too read the article and am going to give it a try!

 

[appalichian hunter]

Stick with this game long enough you will come across all kinds of things, thin leather, flat flint, tight jaw screw worked for 100s of years, works now. Why complicate things. Go the old path fellas it is worn smooth and well traveled.

 

[French Colonial]

I know who Fred is and most times he has some good stuff, this time, I will pass.

I have been known to switch the flint front to back and having it glued in would not work, and what I have been doing works.

 

[IanH]

You should try listening to some of these mechanical/experimentally minded older guys who have been around these guns for decades................. they know useful stuff !

I listen to everybody. It's also pretty easy to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[M. De Land]

Stick with this game long enough you will come across all kinds of things, thin leather, flat flint, tight jaw screw worked for 100s of years, works now. Why complicate things. Go the old path fellas it is worn smooth and well traveled.

It seems to me that if one can gain another 70-80 high spark strikes in the life of a flint while improving the spark generation of all the strikes in it's life (because it is not moving/flexing in the cock jaws at frizzen contact) is worth exploring but then that's just me.

 

[M. De Land]

I know who Fred is and most times he has some good stuff, this time, I will pass.

I have been known to switch the flint front to back and having it glued in would not work, and what I have been doing works.

But, have you actually tried what he is advocating the way he is doing it or making a judgement without a trial ?

 

[M. De Land]

I listen to everybody. It's also pretty easy to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Now that is the first thing you've said that I can agree with ! Might want to try that shoe on yourself when no one is looking!

 

[appalichian hunter]

It seems to me that if one can gain another 70-80 high spark strikes in the life of a flint while improving the spark generation of all the strikes in it's life (because it is not moving/flexing in the cock jaws at frizzen contact) is worth exploring but then that's just me.

I know not of the author whom you referenced, but if he says it works for him that's great, I only know what works and has worked for me over the years. I actually think it's just an un-necessary thing to do, now on the other hand if you should find historical references of this being done that would throw the ball into a different field. If you do this please report back on the results, as to the 70-80 additional strikes for me that alone is questionable, good luck on your journey and looking forward to the results.

 

[M. De Land]

I don't think anyone here besides you an me knows who Fred Stutzenberger is.... pretty sad. I too read the article and am going to give it a try!

I'm a trained/schooled gun mechanic myself with over 40 years of continued activity in the field and I can tell in five minutes of listening to or reading what a person has to say If they actually know anything or are blowing spoke.
No one knows it all but God and it pays to always listen to new ideas and if felt note worth given a try.
To judge a reasonable idea negatively without testing it's validity is not a path I would care to tread personally.
Stutzenberger ideas are worth exploring as he has experienced most areas of flint gun craft and building right down to hand making and case hardening lock plates, cocks, frizzens, springs, pins,screw etc.
I don't think he refers to himself as a gunsmith but he'll sure pass for one until the real deal comes along !

 

[M. De Land]

i foresee a hundred pages coming about how to get a stuck flint out of glued leather

It's really quite simple as Fred explains, heat the flint not the leather with a soldering iron and Agra- glass he uses as the glue lets go of it !

 

[M. De Land]

I know not of the author whom you referenced, but if he says it works for him that's great, I only know what works and has worked for me over the years. I actually think it's just an un-necessary thing to do, now on the other hand if you should find historical references of this being done that would throw the ball into a different field. If you do this please report back on the results, as to the 70-80 additional strikes for me that alone is questionable, good luck on your journey and looking forward to the results.

But what if you can improve what has been working for you , wouldn't your ancestors have taken advantage of new ideas they had not here-to-fore tried?

 

[appalichian hunter]

I doubt my ancestors would have even thought about it, this falls into the crevices of if they had it, they would have used it, by no means am I knocking it, just seems like an un-necessary thing to do. I believe somewhere in the thread it was mentioned the author was or is a writer on these types of issues, that's fine everyone has their own takes on this type of things. Perhaps post the article referencing this procedure and how it was determined to be a better method of fitting a flint to the cock, I have and shoot some very fine flint guns and have never had an issue of them going bang, if the flint is sharp, and mounted correctly. Does this mean I am not open to other ideals no, just not worth the process for me. There were some who stated where it could save time in a timed woods walk environment but really how much time is actually saved, I have seen some pretty stringent rules in some of those matches, Example I was invited to a woods walk match outside of Harrisburg Pa. by a good friend of mine, it was a very involved ordeal from the clothing you wore to OK now take everything out of your bag and lets have a gander at it, If a questionable item was on your person best have documentation to back it, I was warned of this and spent two days sorting items for the shoot. (and I try to be as period correct as I can with accountments no matter what type of shooting I am involved in) The big culprits was a loading block and Damascus bladed knives due to the time period being portrayed It turned out to be a great time and no problems for me or my friend, but I did see one or two others walking back to their vehicles to drop off things. I hope it works for you if you give it a go, but I will stick to the old ways as close as can get.

 

[smo]

I posted a section out of the Fred’s article in post # 14 where the author himself says…

“Even with the flint epoxied into its leather sandwich, it could not be clamped adequately”….

 

[TDM]

I posted a section out of the Fred’s article in post # 14 where the author himself says…

View attachment 241871

“Even with the flint epoxied into its leather sandwich, it could not be clamped adequately”….

Another reason to keep some roughness or serrations on the clamping surfaces. I find that cures most ills.

 

[M. De Land]

I posted a section out of the Fred’s article in post # 14 where the author himself says…

View attachment 241871

“Even with the flint epoxied into its leather sandwich, it could not be clamped adequately”….

Hence the agitation/ roughed up surface, of the inside of the upper and lower cock jaws in concert with the leather glued/epoxied to the flint ! Jaws better grip on leather and leathers better grip on flint!

 

[Rifleman1776]

just seems like an un-necessary thing to do.

Bingo! And, Amen, Bro. Really should be end of discussion, this is starting to sound like a political debate.

 

[waksupi]

This could put some of us cheap guys out of business, I use every side of a flint, bevel up, bevel down, backwards an sideways if I think I can get a spark out of it!

 

[M. De Land]

Bingo! And, Amen, Bro. Really should be end of discussion, this is starting to sound like a political debate.

Oh then, the rest of us should stop the discussion because you don't care for the idea ? How about you just ignore any further discourse and the rest who may be interested keep on until we don't care to exchange ideas any further.
If you don't like the idea, don't try it, stick with what you currently do and be content with that, and more power to you!
This post was to inform those who like to try new and perhaps only rediscovered techniques that have potential to improve what we do and make a good thing even better.
I have a hard time imagining what flint gun shooter would not prefer to explore a potentially better , more consistent spark that prolongs the life of his flint because it may not have been done in antiquity . Then again the flint shooters of the old days may have very well used some type of adhesive like hide glue or pitch to accomplish the same result. It is such a novel, easy, practical idea, completely available to original flint gun shooters with natural adhesives, that I doubt it original to the modern era of time exclusively.
I'm quite sure that roughing up the inside surface of cock jaws or cutting ribs in them is not a new idea either !

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I don't think anyone here besides you an me knows who Fred Stutzenberger is.... pretty sad. I too read the article and am going to give it a try!

Fred has written boring articles for muzzle blasts for 30-40 years. For me those articles have been 100% useless information. Now, everybody pile on and put some good old muzzleloading forum hate on me!

 

[M. De Land]

Fred has written boring articles for muzzle blasts for 30-40 years. For me those articles have been 100% useless information. Now, everybody pile on and put some good old muzzleloading forum hate on me!

No one hates you but I do wonder at your contentment of willful ignorance for nostalgia's sake !