Goex 4F ?

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Smokey in Oz

40 Cal.
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Mar 27, 2006
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Guys,
some advice please?
I've noticed most around here tend to use 2F or 3F. Whats' 4F like? I can get a few tins but the bloke cant tell me whether it's safe to use.
Can I use it in my 50cal Hawken PRB with reduced loads. I currently run 60 grains of Swiss for 100 yards at paper targets. I'm not sure whether it will be too fast burning for what I'm shooting. :hmm:
Your knowledge would be appreciated.
Smokey.
 
Very fine powder, almost like talcum powder. Most shooters who use 4F use it as a primer for their flintlocks rather than as a main charge. Many flintlock shooters think 4F is a waste and use 3F as their prime.

If it was my choice, I would buy it only if I intended to use for prime in a flintlock.
 
It can also be used in small caliber pistols like the .31 Colt or Remington.

A year or so ago, the Bevel Brothers (regular column) in MuzzleBlasts Magazine tested shooting 4F in one of their Flintlocks as a main charge.

The results of their testing, as I recall, was very erratic accuracy and a great deal of fouling in the bore.
There was one poster on this forum some time back who claimed it worked OK, but I don't recall where that post is.

If it were me, I would pass on the 4F unless it is all that you can get.
I would also reduce my load at least 20% as this is very fast burning powder.
Zonie :)
 
4Fg powder is for priming powder use ONLY! Do not attempt to use this as a main charge in the barrel. Very high pressures will be generated in the chamber, and could cause injuries to the shooter or other around him if something broke loose. The test using 4Fg in a small pistol was just to see if it was possible to get consistent pressures using this dust. They didn't.

GOEX will recommend that FFFFg powder be used on for priming the pan, and never in the barrel. We use FFFg, and FFg powder for priming, because the larger granules absorb moisture slower from the air, and the minute delay in the time it takes to ignite these powders is so small that it has to be neasured in Millionths of an second! Way too small for even the best trained human ear to hear consistently. If you are hunting in humid conditions, our experience is to leave the 4Fg powder home, and prime with whatever you load down the barrel of the gun. You may still have to plug your touch hole, and wait to prime until you see or hear game, in order to keep the priming powder in the pan dry enough to fire, if it is raining, or humid enough. I have hunted in both rain, and high humidity, where I was soaked to the skin by the humidity under my rain poncho, and I had to dry the pan, and keep it empty until I heard the wild boar I was hunting.
 
Smokey, I know this sounds rather drastic, but could you take your own car by ferry to Melbourne and get some 2F and 3F that way? I feel for you mate, a very frustrating position for a Blackpowder shooter.
 
From what i have read i would have to agree with the 4f being to dangerous to use as a main charge,its not worth taking the risk.
 
Smokey in Oz said:
Guys,
some advice please?
I've noticed most around here tend to use 2F or 3F. Whats' 4F like? I can get a few tins but the bloke cant tell me whether it's safe to use.
Can I use it in my 50cal Hawken PRB with reduced loads. I currently run 60 grains of Swiss for 100 yards at paper targets. I'm not sure whether it will be too fast burning for what I'm shooting. :hmm:
Your knowledge would be appreciated.
Smokey.
I use Goex 4F as my priming powder, suspect I always will...extremely fast, consistent, and not loading from a horn I don't mind carrying a small pan primer in my shirt pocket.

NOTE:
I personally ran tests with a can of Elephant 4F, using it as main charges in .45/.50/.54/.58cals and posted the results here within the past few months...it works just as well as any other granulation like 3F or 2F with two notable observations:

1) It is so fine that when seating a ball firmly and quickly with one big power stroke like I normally do, the compressed air blew a lot of the fine 4F out of the vent, and for the first few shots until I discovered this, I thought using 4F as a main charge was erratic....but that was not the case at all...when I plugged the vent with a pipe cleaner and seated the ball more slowly, the 4F charges were extremey accurate for all three weekends of tests, very consistent, and very, very little fouling.

2) I experimented with 30, 40, and 50 grains just for 25 and 50yd targets...the 30grn charge was pretty much of a powder puff load that you hardly knew you were shooting;

The 40grn charge was a good 50yd target load and it began to feel like something actually going off;

The 50grn charge showed signs of a good 'report' and recoil like my normal 50grn target loads of Goex 3F;

Since I was mainly burning up a can of Elephant 4F to get rid of it, and to experiment with 4F main charges to be able to speak from actual first hand knowledge, I used up all the powder over different weekends using different caliber rifles and did not do any detailed testing with 60grns or larger...based upon the tests that I did run, I'd suspect recoil/pressure spiking would start to become an issue.

In summary, if somebody gave me a free can of 4F to play with at the range, I'd go shoot it without hesitation using the 40-50grn charges I mentioned...I would not intentionally buy it for that purpose due to the issue of the fine 4F blowing out of the vent unless you plug while loading...and I would never use it for hunting as 4F attracts moisture so rapidly...but it was great for targets at the range.
 
Smokey in Oz said:
Guys,
some advice please?
I've noticed most around here tend to use 2F or 3F. Whats' 4F like? I can get a few tins but the bloke cant tell me whether it's safe to use.
Can I use it in my 50cal Hawken PRB with reduced loads. I currently run 60 grains of Swiss for 100 yards at paper targets. I'm not sure whether it will be too fast burning for what I'm shooting. :hmm:
Your knowledge would be appreciated.
Smokey.

If it comes to the worst use pyrodex!
I am currently using it and have produced some good loads.
See the pm I sent you there is a guy down here that is getting some in "whizz bang firearms".
Worst comes to worst drive down and say gday pick up ya powder.
Rob
 
FFFFg will draw moisture from the air faster than FFFg or FFg, this could be something to think about since you will be heading into the colder weather season soon, not really sure what your late Fall and Winters are like, ours (in Ohio) are wet...

I would like to suggest that if you use FFFFg to prime during wet weather conditions, replace the priming powder in the pan every half hour or so, this way you'll have a fresh prime ready at all times...
 
I was taught 4F was for pans only, it's flash powder..very fine...I'm from the school ya want to use coarse powder for rifle...FF or FFF
 
"Ask and ye shall receive"

Thanks for the great advice fellers, that was exactly what I needed to know. The 4F can stay on the shelf.
I've still got an iron or two in the fire with regards BP. One phone number to chase up and another shop says they'll get me in a case (24 tins)of powder (not worth 'em getting less than that over apparently), so I might have to ask around to spread the load.
Thanks again.
Smokey. :bow:
 
Oh, I don't know... get out often enough and you'll go through that case all on your own in no time... :grin:
 
Smokey in Oz said:
"Ask and ye shall receive"

Thanks for the great advice fellers, that was exactly what I needed to know. The 4F can stay on the shelf.
I've still got an iron or two in the fire with regards BP. One phone number to chase up and another shop says they'll get me in a case (24 tins)of powder (not worth 'em getting less than that over apparently), so I might have to ask around to spread the load.
Thanks again.
Smokey. :bow:
Never buy 4F again.

Order a Master Screen from Cal Graf... or make your own 3F powder screen from 1/32 brass screen.

Depending on the powder you buy you will get anywhere from 4 to 11 oz of 4F & Fines out of every 1 lb can... and have more consistant powder to shoot!

See my Powder Test thread.
 
I'm new to the forum so I've been going through all the old posts to pick up what I've missed.

My old Lyman Black Powder Handbook (1975) only shows loads for 4f in revolvers.

Interestingly, in a Lyman 1860 Army P&V Revolver (.44), all things being equal except for granulation, it shows higher pressure readings with 3f than with 4f. Velocity data is strange. From 19 to 25 gr. 4f gives greater velocity. From 28 to 37 gr. 3f gives the greater velocity.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Old Coot
 
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