Goex or KIK

[tjohnson56]

Just got back from the range after using Goex for the first time, I have been using KIK in the past. My gun, a T/C Renegade Hunter all of a sudden in the past month took a liking to KIK 2f witch was strange because up until then I could not tell the difference between 2f and 3f KIK in the groups I got.

When I tried the Goex I went back to the groups opening up and this is 2f Goex. When filling my flask with powder I could look at the two powders and the Goex 2f seemed to be a larger granule than the KIK 2f.

This was a small test, I only shot about 7 to 10 shots of Goex but there was a noticeable difference in fouling between Goex 2f and KIK 2f.

My ? is, is KIK 2f closer to granule size and fouling to Goex 3f than Goex 2f? Is performance of KIK 2f the same as Goex 3f.

Anybody who has used both of these powders please give me any insight that you have. Looks like I might have about 7 pounds of Goex 2f that I should have ordered in 3f, but I have not tried the Goex 3f yet so i'm a little unsure.

 

[rudy parnell]

I've been researching this issue.

Shooters that I've talked too......like the 3fGoex for 50cal. and below.

They are starting to put confidence in 3f for charge and prime.

I don't have any range results to offer but others here report positive results for 3fGoex.

 

[nw_hunter]

Rebel has been using KIK along with Goex, and I think he finds them to be equal, as far as fouling and accuracy.

Correct me if I'm wrong Reb. :grin:

 

[jtmattison]

My ? is, is KIK 2f closer to granule size and fouling to Goex 3f than Goex 2f? Is performance of KIK 2f the same as Goex 3f.

I cannot speak from personal experience but I heard several reports that KIK 2f is very close in granulation and performance to Goex 3f.
I have also heard that regardless to granulation KIK fouls less than Goex.

Maybe someday I'll give KIK a try. I almost bought some the last time I ordered powder but I just couldn't stray from Goex.

HD

 

[tjohnson56]

Thanks Dawg, I need to hear from some Goex users if they are using 3f Goex instead of 2f KIK or Swiss. I have both KIK and Swiss in 2f and need to know what they think. I have not shot any Swiss as of yet, just got it to try.

You all know the old saying, hungry, need a job? Eat your import. I tried Goex because its American made. But if the 3f shoots no better than the 2f in my gun then I've got about 11 pounds of Goex thats no more than plinking fodder.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I shoot Goex FFg powder in my .50 caliber rifle and get excellent results. MY ROT is 1:48. I use 65 grains for target shooting to 50 yds. 75 grains for a hunting load for deer out to 100 yards.

When I began working on loads, I started at 50 grains and worked up in 5 grain increments.

My patch thickness is .015 and I shoot a .490 ball out of a Green Mountain barrel. I lube with Young Country 101 lube( Bore Butter, Wonderlube, and other names depending on who is selling it.)

I began trying OP wads, and I got better groups, faster velocities, and a smaller Standard Deviation of Velocity with the OP wads. Obviously, the wad also acts as a firewall. The best part of using OP wads is that I get more complete burning of the FFg powder in my flintlock, so that residue feels the same as when I shoot Goex FFFg powder, and cleans out the same, too.

I can buy Goex powder here for about $13.00 a pound, while Swiss powder is running almost double that price. I have not priced Kik, but I know its made in Europe, and the reason for the different in sizing is that the Europeans are using the metric system for measuring screens, and sieves, where we still use the English System in inches to measure our screens. ( in Thousandths of an inch.)

I have also been told that Swiss powder uses a slightly different amount of Potassium Nitrate in their powder formula, which creates more gases to speed the ball down the barrel. KIK may also be doing the same thing, since they are competing in Europe for the same market. I have not seen this verified, scientifically, but from the difference in velocities shown when you screen Goex to remove the "fines", before shooting, and then screen Swiss powder with the same screen, the difference in velocity can only be explained by a slightly different formula for making the powder being used in Europe. When we tested Swiss powder side by side with Goex, using OP wads with both loads, the difference in velocity was about 100 fps, certainly not enough to warrant the higher price charged for the Swiss powder. You get that kind of variation in velocity from one lot of Goex to the next! ( and adjust your load accordingly.)

 

[renovato]

Did you start using Goex at your normal load, or did you work up a load with it? If you work up a load with it, you'll probably find a sweet spot that the gun likes. Most of my rifles prefer FFFG, but I have one with a strong preference for FFG. But in all of them, I can find a decent load using the other powder. Let us know what you find out. I haven't tried KIK yet but I follow all the threads about powders.

 

[tjohnson56]

I have the invoice right here in front of me, I paid $16.75 a pound for Swiss plus shipping so that jacks it up a bit. I have not shot any Swiss yet.

I'd like to buy American but the KIK 2f seems to outshoot the goex 2f by far. Maybe the Goex 3f is close to the KIK 2f, but from the little I shot Goex it's not close so far. I need another trip to the range to check out the Goex 3f and see if it works in my gun.

 

[tjohnson56]

No, I have not yet tried to work up a load for Goex Plink. My gun took a liking to 2f KIK out of the blue, I've shot 2f and 3f KIK because thats all I could get at the time. Out of the blue my gun wanted 2f KIK instead of 3f KIK so I'm in limbo here.

My ? is, is Goex 3f equal to to KIK 2f and where does Swiss fit in?

 

[jtmattison]

My ? is, is Goex 3f equal to to KIK 2f and where does Swiss fit in?

There are no stats I know of that will answer that question
It's a matter of working up loads for your rifle. Try the Goex. Adjust your charge in 5 grain increments and I will be surprised if you don't find it can shoot as good or better than with the KIK.

I used Goex 3f for about a year in my .54's. I was able to work up loads for all of my rifles with it. The next batch I bought was Goex 2f. With a little range time I was able to establish new loads for all of those rifles.

It just takes some range work to put all of the pieces together.

HD

 

[MikeChapin]

No, I have not yet tried to work up a load for Goex Plink. My gun took a liking to 2f KIK out of the blue, I've shot 2f and 3f KIK because thats all I could get at the time. Out of the blue my gun wanted 2f KIK instead of 3f KIK so I'm in limbo here.

My ? is, is Goex 3f equal to to KIK 2f and where does Swiss fit in?

I used KIK for a couple of years. I was going to get another 25 lbs. of it this order but ran into a deal for 25 pounds of GOEX 3F bulk for $9 a pound so I picked that up.

After using KIK for two years I could tell some difference. I do a lot of competition shooting so I am kind of picky about rifle performance.

In appearance the KIK 2F looks like about 2.5F when compared to GOEX 3F and 2F. I used KIK 2F in my .50 and above rifles. KIK 3F looks a little finer than GOEX 3F. Not much but it is noticeable.

In my .50 and above rifles the group size did not change when using GOEX 3F from KIK 2F. The POI went up maybe a quarter of an inch or so at 25 and 50 yards. With the 100 yard loads I had to drop back five grains or so to keep the same POI with GOEX 3F.

The comparison between GOEX 3F and KIK 3F was a little closer. For my .32 and .36 the group size and POI stayed the same with both powders. It seemed the KIK was a little hotter but nothing much changed on how the rifles perfomed. For my pistols which I shoot kind of weenie loads I could see no difference at all.

Hope it answers you questions.

 

[renovato]

My ? is, is Goex 3f equal to to KIK 2f and where does Swiss fit in?

I haven't used KIK but if it's a bit more energetic than Goex, it would probably work out that KIK FFG would be similar to Goex FFFG. It's worth trying the FFFG to see. You're really not going to know how well Goex FFG will work out until you can spend a little time working up loads.

I do use Swiss. It's a bit hotter than Goex and seems to be a bit finer granulation. It's definately more consistent and gives better accuracy in every gun that I've tried it in. I don't buy much of it because the slight improvement isn't worth the extra cost to me, except for serious target shooting.

 

[MikeC]

I just got 5 pounds of KIK but haven't tried it yet. Did some research and came up with the following.

Cheaper than Goex and closer to Swiss regarding how it burns. Seems like a win win situation for me. :thumbsup:

 

[Goldhunter]

I've been using Kik because everytime I go to buy powder, Goex is gone. I have no complaints with Kik. It does seem to burn a little cleaner than Goex, but it doesn leave a fouling ring in the breach when I use big charges (I don't remember Goex doing that). Not a problem as I swab after about 4 shots anyway.

 

[texcl]

I recently bought kik, goex(both 3f) and skirmish powder(1F, the cheapest powder you can get) and tested them in my .50 cal flintlock. I came up with these observations. KIK is very close to goex no change in fouling or POI, it seems alittle more powerful and recoils more than goex, but you could adjust your load for this, the change is insignificant. Skirmish was dirtier and in my rifle had a more pronounced delay when fired.The delay was very noticable and POI was different, fouling was really not that much worse than te other 2 but was redder in color and perhaps a little harder, the delay was the big deal.I'm not sure if the coarsness caused the delay, so it's not a very good comparision I guess. In the end I'll be sticking with KIK, it's good stuff.