GPR Barrel Weight

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Capper said:
That has a 1-32 twist. That should be for conicals. I don't think that will work for patched balls. That's what I want to shoot.

In my experience it will shoot RBs darned well up through a charge of around 60 grains of powder, then start to open up. I agree that the slow twist barrel is better for RB's, but you can still go ahead and pick up a slow twist accessory barrel from Midsouth for $117. Eating into your wallet I know, but some guys like to have both barrels. If you entertain the notion of ever trying conicals, you might as well have the right barrel on hand anyway.
 
Cripes! Everytime I see a post in my thread I think i'll get an answer. :(

I post on 5 fishing forums to talk fishing. :)


1-32 twist is bad right?


edit..Oops! You made another post while I was typing. No fair.
 
Fast twist barrels ALSO NEED shallow rifling, to handle conical bullets well. a 1:32" ROT barrel is considered fast, but there are certainly faster ROT barrels for lead conicals.

With a shallow grooved barrel, you need to use the correct ball diameter, and the correct thickness of patch, lubed well. In my old Spanish made .45, the rifling was almost non-existent--- mere scratches in the barrel. The Bore was .451
in diameter, and grooves were not more than .002" Deep.

I found the gun shot very well using a .445" RB, with a .010" patch, lubed with either spit, or with wonderlube. I tried .440 balls, with .015, .020" thick patches, and could not get better groups-- in fact, they were worse. I was able to use 55 grains of 3Fg powder, which was a pretty hefty load in that gun with only a 25" barrel. But, out to 50 yds, It shot very well.

I have since shot .45 rifles with barrels that were 10 inches longer, using powder charges up to 90 grains. The most accurate groups, however, were in the 70-75 gr. powder charges in those longer barreled guns.

My own work, my brother's work with several .40s, and now .45 rifles, as well as talking to other shooters has convinced me that you can get accurate RB groups with a shallow rifled, fast twist barrel, and you can use large powder charges, if the barrels are long enough to burn it efficiently. But, you have to have a very tight fitting Ball/patch combination in such guns if you want to get both velocity and accuracy.

The Chunk Gun shooters are using oversized balls in their guns, -- a .454 or .457" diameter ball in their .451" diameter barrels. Obviously these are RB guns with deep rifling at is 1:48 or slower ROTs. The patching is tough. The Conicals used are getting close to groove diameter of these barrels.
 
Thanks for the post Paul.

I need to learn more about conicals. Are they considered for just hunting? Are they used for target shooting too? Are they legal for target shooting? The ones I see are heavy bullets. That wouldn't be needed for target shooting.

With no patch. Does it lead up the barrel? Are they more accurate in a fast twist barrel compared to a ball in a slow twist?

Sorry for all the questions, but i'm trying to understand the pros and cons of conicals.
 
Conical's are always heavier than round balls.

They can lead the bore when they are shot.

Factory made bullets are always more expensive to shoot than roundballs.

Paper targets can be shot with anything but the guns that shoot bullets are sometimes even fussier about their loads than the guns that shoot roundballs.

Shooting a solid lead bullet that your gun doesn't like can make for poor accuracy.


Because bullets are heavier they produce more felt recoil so for some folks, going to the range to shoot 40-50 shots can become a painful experience.

If I were you I would try to get the slow twist version of the rifle. I wouldn't be happy with a shallow groove fast twist barrel.
 
There are separate matches at the Nationals for conicals, and at some of the larger clubs around the country. These are usually fired over 100 and 200 yds, and sometimes further, if a club has a range that permits long range shooting.

RBs are fired at 25, 50, 100 and 200 yards max.

Shuetzen matches are shot at 200 yards, using conicals.

When you get to the Bench rest matches, there are different matches for different weight classes of guns, all the way out to 1,000 yds. All these matches are shot using conicals.

I believe that most of the "Research and Development" in the MLing rifle business is being done by the Bench Rest shooters. Because of the long distances involved, they strive to have a perfect match between their bores, and the bullets they fire. They do everything possible to eliminate inconsistencies, and eliminate variables.

No one, for instance, shooting Round Balls for target matches, demands that balls weight the exact same weight, with NO variation even as small as 1/10th grain. But, some of the Slug Gun shooters do. Its in these long range contests that you find shooters weighing powder charges on electronic scales, weighing their bullets so that all the bullets used in a match weigh EXACTLY the same weight, measuring each patch with a caliper or micrometer, sorting out those that vary the least bit. All this seems odd until you get close to the shooters, and their sport, and realize what it takes to send ten shots down range into a very small group, at 600, 800,900, and 1,000 yds.
 
I've seen videos of those matches Paul. It's pretty interesting, but my crappy eyes could never do that. I'm thinking 100 yds would be beyond my eyes with open sights.

I'm sure the club I want to shoot with doesn't do anything like that. They don't shoot past 125 yds and are more into tradition.

If Buffalo Arms can't work out anything i'll just tell them to send my old gun back to me. I'll get the Davis trigger next month, and put on the primitive sight.
 
Capper said:
Brown Bear,

Don't take me seriously. I'm just messing with you. :grin:

Right back atcha! :wink:

On your conical questions, Zonie covered it pretty well. The guys I know who use them mostly do so for their better long range potential than RBs. If you're likely to be shooting over 100 most of the time, they do make some sense for flatter trajectory, even starting slower. In my limited testing conicals turn in better groups than RBs at ranges well beyond 100, but I've never used them on game. Just another round toit. I didn't have any leading, but that can vary from rifle to rifle and lube to lube, and I suppose, even from one bullet design to another.

I see you're from CO- There are some restrictions there on what kinds of conicals you can use, but I don't recall the details well enough to quote your laws. Worth checking though.

I've got a couple of fast twist rifles, as well as a bunch of 1:48's and a bunch of slow twist guns. I almost never use conicals in the fast twist guns, mostly because they're light and recoil is a big issue with heavy loads, as Zonie hints at. When I say "open up" with charges larger than 60 grains, I'm saying 3" groups with 80 grains at 75 yards compared to 1.5" to 2" with 60. I'd still hunt with those loads to that range, but they're turning in 6" groups at 100 yards, compared to 2-3" with conicals.

BTW- I'm really sorry that Lyman doesn't make a 1:48" barrel, as a kind of "best of both worlds" offering. Maybe they'd just rather sell more barrels. In any case, lots of folks will pack sawdust in your ears about 1:48" not shooting RB's well. Worst kind of hogwash in all the 1:48's I own. Stellar accuracy with both RBs and conicals.
 
I wouldn't hesitate if it was 1-48 like the Deerstalker, but 1-32 is getting kind of fast for target shooting with RB. If I was only hunting I would also get the 1-32. Simply because of being better at distance and hitting harder up close with conicals.

I wouldn't buy a gun for just hunting. The season is too short here. What do I do for the rest of the year?

I'm going to suggest to Buffalo Arms to my barrel on the GP Hunter. I doubt they'll do it, but it doesn't cost anything to ask. Are the barrels fitted to the stocks, or do they interchange with no problems?

btw..I can't use sabots here, but conicals are ok.
 
The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Buffalo Arms is going to get Lyman to dropship me another GPR. :grin:

I was going to change to a .54, but I think i'll stay with the .50 and use it on small game.

I'm a happy camper now. :haha:
 
I'm guessing you didn't read the whole thread? Buffalo Arms owed me one. I paid $473.

It shipped from Lyman today. It should get to me this week. (I hope)
 
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