Grandpa's Rifle

[mcdenney]

Growing up I spent a lot of time with my grandpa hunting and fishing. We literally went everywhere together. In particular, I used to always admire his blackpowder rifle that he used to call his "hog" gun. He would use it to hunt squirrels, rabbits and of course kill hogs.

My grandpa passed away a long time ago when I was a young kid. I wanted that rifle bad but unfortunately it ended up going to the oldest son and was then passed on to his oldest son (my cousin). Over the years I tried desperately to get my hands on that rifle and offered to buy it several times without any luck.

No disrespect to the family but after I grew up I was really the only one with a passion for the outdoors who could appreciate grandpas gun and take appropriate care of it. Honestly the rest don't know one end of a gun from the other. Fast forward to today, thanksgiving day of all things. My cousin, now getting up in years and not in the best of health, pulled me aside. He said I know how much you thought of grandpa and how much grandpa thought of you and I think it would be appropriate for me to give you grandpas rifle. I think grandpa would want it that way. I about fell over! After all these years I finally have in my hands grandpas hog rifle. I'm pretty excited!

Now the reason for my post. I need some help. The rifle has not been taken care of properly and I need some help on how to proceed in getting it in working condition. I would like to get it in the best condition I possibly can in hopes that it will last a long time and that I can pass it on to my kids and their kids. Right now that is somewhat questionable, given the shape it is in but I think it is doable!

I always thought it was a KY Long Rifle (percussion cap) in .32 caliber. However, after inspecting it today very thoroughly I can't seem to find any markings on the gun to indicate the maker. It's 58" long from tip to tip and I have plenty of pics I can post if that will help.

What I am looking for is how to get this back in shape (the best I can anyway). Personally, I think it is repairable but I am by no means an expert on this type gun. Therefore, I am looking for any and all suggestions. The nipple, the area around the nipple, the double set triggers, missing ramp rod, and of course the barrell (both inside and out) need some attention. Some of this stuff may have to be replaced. My ultimate goal is to get it back to where I might be able to shoot it and then keep it in good shape after that.

Is this something I can do? Is there someone really good who would specialize in getting this back into shape?

Thoughts, recommendations? Thanks guys!

 

[mcdenney]

Here are some pics.

 

[William O.]

First things first, do not attempt to fire it. It looks like it is missing some important screws and you will also need to determine if it is loaded or not. Many old muzzleloaders have found to still contain powder and ball, which can still go off, so even if your cousin says it hasn't been fired since he got it from your grandfather, that doesn't mean that it's safe. I also think that in this case your best bet is to take it to a compentent gunsmith who has experience with old/antique muzzleloaders. Not every smith has such experience either, you're going to have to check around your area. Maybe someone else here will recognize the exact model or style your rifle is, but don't take a screwdriver to it yourself.

 

[1sgt]

Congratulations. It looks great. I have used electralitic rust removal with good success. Take your time. You can remove all the rust with no harsh abrasives, which may riun it.
Check it out.http://www.rowand.net/shop/Tools/Electrolysis.htm

This rust removal method is slow but will remove all of the rust. Just brush with a parts cleaning brush each day and let the Electrolysis do the rest. It may be worth more in original condition but it needs a lot of carefull cleaning before you consider shooting it. How about the bore?

 

[Tom Compton]

Great heirloom. Congratulations.

William is correct!

1. It may be loaded. Check by running a ramrod or dowel rod or something similar all the way down the barrel, mark the rod at the muzzle. Lay the rod down the side of the barrel with the mark at the muzzle. If the measuring rod doesnt reach the drum, it is probaboly loaded.

2. get with some experienced MLs in your area to locate an experienced ML gunsmith (not someone who disassembles and assembles AR15s and calls himself a gunsmith). Have them pull the breech plug to inspect the threads and rifling/barrel wall at that end. If servicable, he can clean the bore and the breech threads, install a new drum and reassemble.

3. The exterior can be dressed up including the area around the nipple.

4. Find out what tang screw size, thread and length you need.

Use it with pride and pleasure!

TC

 

[Zonie]

mcdenney
Congratulations on your new rifle!

As the others have said, the first thing to do is to run a ramrod down the barrel to determine if something stops it short of reaching the breech plug. It could still be loaded or a kid might have dropped a marble down the bore. It's always wise to be on the safe side.

If the ramrod goes down to or past the center of the side drum you will be safe in considering the gun to be unloaded.

As was mentioned, some important parts (like the tang screw) are missing so do not fire the gun until this is fixed.
It is a good idea to have a competent gunsmith check out the barrel and trigger assembly before thinking of shooting it.

It appears to be of Southern manufacture and the lock is probably a purchased item from one of the companies that made locks.
The trigger guard is hand forged iron and it, and the stock shape and cheek piece is the basis for my saying it is a Southern rifle.

It was probably made in the 1840-1860 time frame.

Do not try to remove the rusty areas with anything more aggressive than steel wool. You do not want to remove the barrels or the stocks finish.
I know that your guns history is important to you and that you will take care of your new gun.

 

[texcl]

The gun may be able to shoot without much messing with. first though, I wouldn't be removing all the rust, you might want to knock down some active scale but to remove all the rust would really devalue the weapon and remove alot of history to boot, that gun just needs a gentle cleaning. The nipple and drum look to be in really good shape, most southern rifles were used and abused, this one doesn't look to have been. What does the bore look like? I would see if the rifle is unloaded then get a bronze brush with some solvent and brush it out and see what you got. I wouldn't remove the breach unless the bore is shot and you are going to have it bored out (I would suggest hoyt for that, he can even reline it to the original caliber if you want, which makes the barrel stronger because of the steel liner.) What troubles me the most is the crack in the stock and the tang screw is missing, you need to stabilize that crack, before you shoot it too much. So in theory you might get away with scrubbing the bore replacing the nipple/ tang screw and fixing the stock (if that is a serious structural crack) to get her back shooting, if you are lucky and by the looks of the rifle, odds are pretty good. One point on cleaning the metal, you should not clean it to shiney steel, if you use very fine steel wool and oil you can knock down the rough rust to a nice brown smooth finish, many rifles back in the day were "browned" by rusting the metal then knocking down the rust to a smooth finish in this manner, don't go nuts with the steel wool.

 

Growing up I spent a lot of time with my grandpa hunting and fishing. We literally went everywhere together. In particular, I used to always admire his blackpowder rifle that he used to call his "hog" gun. He would use it to hunt squirrels, rabbits and of course kill hogs.

My grandpa passed away a long time ago when I was a young kid. I wanted that rifle bad but unfortunately it ended up going to the oldest son and was then passed on to his oldest son (my cousin). Over the years I tried desperately to get my hands on that rifle and offered to buy it several times without any luck.

No disrespect to the family but after I grew up I was really the only one with a passion for the outdoors who could appreciate grandpas gun and take appropriate care of it. Honestly the rest don't know one end of a gun from the other. Fast forward to today, thanksgiving day of all things. My cousin, now getting up in years and not in the best of health, pulled me aside. He said I know how much you thought of grandpa and how much grandpa thought of you and I think it would be appropriate for me to give you grandpas rifle. I think grandpa would want it that way. I about fell over! After all these years I finally have in my hands grandpas hog rifle. I'm pretty excited!

Now the reason for my post. I need some help. The rifle has not been taken care of properly and I need some help on how to proceed in getting it in working condition. I would like to get it in the best condition I possibly can in hopes that it will last a long time and that I can pass it on to my kids and their kids. Right now that is somewhat questionable, given the shape it is in but I think it is doable!

I always thought it was a KY Long Rifle (percussion cap) in .32 caliber. However, after inspecting it today very thoroughly I can't seem to find any markings on the gun to indicate the maker. It's 58" long from tip to tip and I have plenty of pics I can post if that will help.

What I am looking for is how to get this back in shape (the best I can anyway). Personally, I think it is repairable but I am by no means an expert on this type gun. Therefore, I am looking for any and all suggestions. The nipple, the area around the nipple, the double set triggers, missing ramp rod, and of course the barrell (both inside and out) need some attention. Some of this stuff may have to be replaced. My ultimate goal is to get it back to where I might be able to shoot it and then keep it in good shape after that.

Is this something I can do? Is there someone really good who would specialize in getting this back into shape?

Thoughts, recommendations? Thanks guys!

Hi McDenney!

Congratulations on your newly acquired muzzleloader!

Like others have stated here, I would check to see if its loaded first using the ramrod method already posted.

I would also make absolutely certain that I've removed all of the rust, entirely. Rust acts just like a cancer. Once it gets started and begins its pitting action, your rifle will lose mass and become less rifle. Eventually, it will no longer exist. Just like a Brillo pad left moist near the sink, it oxides via rust and then ceases to exist.

I would take it to a competent Blackpowder gunsmith and have him fire the rifle. After that, I would remove the rust electrolytically or chemically. I would also sand the stock down to a smooth surface and refinish it completely for your grandpa's sake. Afterwards, keep it oiled and moisturefree.

Good Luck! :thumbsup:

May your grandpa rest in peace...

 

I just thought that I might add. I think that I might have a gunsmith put a high polished rebluing on that barrel for sure and possibly all other metal parts, as well.

 

[texcl]

A browned finish (which is actually a thin coat of smoothed rust, that is oiled) will actually prevent further rusting as it holds oil and doesn't allow oxygen to react with the steel, stopping further rusting. I would go to the gun builders section as that is where the real experts on this subject are. Do your research and make sure the people whom you take your advice from are speaking from experience (and lots of it). The worst thing you can do to that rifle is remove the patina and refinish it, that goes for the wood and the metal. When I was a new gun collector, I will admit I made the mistake of over cleaning guns/ refinishing them and basicly ruined the value and sanded and steel wooled years of history away, it makes me sick now, please do your research before you do something that is irreversable to such a valuable piece of family history. Your gun is in fabulous condition for it's age, tamper with it as little as you can.

 

[wattlebuster]

Your granddad is in heaven grinnin like a mule eatin briars. I wont bore you with any more advise cause the other guys seem to have it covered.CONGRATS to you :thumbsup:

 

[Many Klatch]

One of the big problems you face is finding an honest-to-God gunsmith that is familiar with muzzleloaders. One approach is to join the NMLRA and get their magazine that has advertisements from many of the active muzzleloading gunsmiths. Quite a few are in Kentucky. You can also find a local museum that does reenactments and hook up with the reenactors, they will know who is local that you can trust.

Finally, come to the big shoot at Friendship Indiana in the Spring and there will be about 100 gunsmiths many of whom can make the repairs right there on the spot.

First make sure the gun is unloaded as others have mentioned. Then don't do anything other than oil the barrel on the outside and run an oiled cleaning patch down the barrel. Take the lock out and oil it. Clean the wood lightly with water and Murphy's oil soap and then wait do anything more with it until someone knowledgeable has a chance to get their hands on it.

If you want to dry fire it, get some 1/4" plastic hose and cut it to fit over the nipple, that will keep the nipple from getting mushroomed. The aggressive curve on the buttstock means that it is what I call an "arm" gun. The butt is meant to go against your bicep. This may take some practice to get comfortable with it.

I think you have a real shooter in your hands and your grandfather took real good care of it. It has been passed down to you and now you need to take good care of it and shoot it with pride.

Many Klatch

 

[mcdenney]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the feedback. Not sure what crack in the stock though you are referring to? What you may be seeing is the stock appears to have some form of cheek mount on the stock which sticks out from the stock (not a crack that I am aware of). I noticed the missing screw. Good advice. Thanks!

 

[TFoley]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the feedback. Not sure what crack in the stock though you are referring to? What you may be seeing is the stock appears to have some form of cheek mount on the stock which sticks out from the stock (not a crack that I am aware of). I noticed the missing screw. Good advice. Thanks!

I hope that you will have noticed that the barrel is pinned into the stock with a pair of under-barrel tenons - you can see the heads of the cross-pins in pictures 4 and 6.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[texcl]

In picture one there appears to be a crack in the wrist it may be a scratch, it's hard to tell, if there is no crack then that is a real plus, have you been able to tell if the bore is in good shape? If it is in as good of shape as the rest of the gun it might just need a good cleaning, I have little doubt you can make that rifle a shooter, please inform us when you get to that point, we love to see old guns burning powder again.Be careful with the original nipple, many of them become brittle over the years as a result of firing the old corrosive caps, I've been told. I would probably have it removed (and saved) and have a modern replacement installed, they manufacture every conceivable nipple now a-days.

 

[TKelly]

Congratulations on your new rifle!

Before reconditioning this rifle, I would first decide if I want it for its antique value or it's functionality as a rifle.

Perhaps, if you think that your grandpa would prefer that you keep it in woking condition, then I would follow the reconditioning posts.

Otherwise, sometimes interfering with the natural rust might devalue the weapon.

 

[TKelly]

Say there Texcl,

I always thought that rust will just eat away at good metal and rust away. Therefore, the actual firearm or instrument would therefore basically disintegrate before your very own eyes in due time anyway.

This idea is actually wrong? :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

Left alone, with time rust will slowly destroy the steel or iron part if it is left to itself however rust has a good side to it too.

It readily absorbs oil and this oil will prevent any oxygen from getting to the surface. This prevents any further rusting of the iron or steel part. This is why guns are blued or browned. Both of these treatments create a hard rust that won't easily wear off.

Over time, the oil will oxidize and loose its effectiveness but another application of oil will rejuvenate the oxygen barrier. That's why it's a good idea to use a good gun oil (that oxidizes slowly) and to apply additional oil at least twice a year.

 

[mcdenney]

Yes, I did notice the pins. Is that something that is typical back in the day? Also that is a slight scratch that the camera has picked up. I was going to take a ramrod and check it to see if it was loaded then try and clean the barrel but realized that I don't have a ramrod that will work. They are either too big around or not long enough. Gonna have to fix something up. Does anybody know if these barrels came blued back then or where they more commonly browned?

 

[TKelly]

Hey there Zonie!

I never really thought about the rust/oil barrier scenario, before.

It really makes a lot of sense.

Thanks!