My new flintlock has a Green Mountain barrel in .50 Caliber. A number of folks at the range tell me the Green Mountain barrels shoot best with a .500 ball. I have been using .495 balls in my other .50 caliber rifles. Any comments on ball size for a Green Mountain barrel?
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Green Mountain Barrels - what ball size
- Thread starter b_haycock
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paulvallandigham
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I have been shooting my .50 ca. GM barrel for more than 25 years using a .490 ball, and a .015 patch for great accuracy.
Hi Paul,
Good to hear from you again! I have been using a .490 ball for a while in my Pedersoli .50 Caliber percussion along with a .015 patch - I couldn't get a tighter group if I punched it out with a pencil! :haha: When I picked up the Custom made "Southern Virginia" .50 Caliber Flintlock the builder told me Green Mountain barrels like .500 RB the best! I couldn't find any so have been using .495 RB with a .015 Teflon patch. As you probably know from my earlier post I finally did get a fairly good group at 100 yards and attribute the tighter group hoped for to just plain poor eye sight at that distance.
Being new to ML shooting (less then a year) I am still in the listening and learning stage! It just seemed to me that a .500 RB in a .50 Caliber barrel was going to be a real tight fit! I have no experience to back anything up so i suppose the best course of action is to experiment.
I called Green Mountain Barrel Company but have not heard back from them yet - will let you know what they tell me.
Bill
Good to hear from you again! I have been using a .490 ball for a while in my Pedersoli .50 Caliber percussion along with a .015 patch - I couldn't get a tighter group if I punched it out with a pencil! :haha: When I picked up the Custom made "Southern Virginia" .50 Caliber Flintlock the builder told me Green Mountain barrels like .500 RB the best! I couldn't find any so have been using .495 RB with a .015 Teflon patch. As you probably know from my earlier post I finally did get a fairly good group at 100 yards and attribute the tighter group hoped for to just plain poor eye sight at that distance.
Being new to ML shooting (less then a year) I am still in the listening and learning stage! It just seemed to me that a .500 RB in a .50 Caliber barrel was going to be a real tight fit! I have no experience to back anything up so i suppose the best course of action is to experiment.
I called Green Mountain Barrel Company but have not heard back from them yet - will let you know what they tell me.
Bill
Greenmtnboy
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Howdy,
Check out muzzleloading accuracy under WOW!!
I have found all my GM barrels like a thick canvas patch 028 or 030 thousands and a 10 thousands under ball. 50cal=490
GM barrels have deep grooves and seem to like the thick stuff
:hatsoff:
Check out muzzleloading accuracy under WOW!!
I have found all my GM barrels like a thick canvas patch 028 or 030 thousands and a 10 thousands under ball. 50cal=490
GM barrels have deep grooves and seem to like the thick stuff
:hatsoff:
I received a phone call this afternoon from GM Barrels and they confirmed what John states above:
for a 50 Caliber Barrel
.495 for hunting
.500 for competition
My friend has a few .500 RB and I will give them a try later this week - will let you know what I find.
And yes John, I am a NRA member :v
for a 50 Caliber Barrel
.495 for hunting
.500 for competition
My friend has a few .500 RB and I will give them a try later this week - will let you know what I find.
And yes John, I am a NRA member :v
I have had a cabin creek .50 for many years. When I first got it I used 490 balls, and found it fouled quickly and did not deliver the accuracy I had hoped for. Called the builder, he said I must use 495 balls, and that match shooters were using 500 balls and driving them with a mallet. I have used 495 balls ever since with good accuracy and normal fouling. They start with a modest rap on the short starter. Usually .018 spit patch or prelubed BB ticking. This is a York Cty style with Green Mtn barrel Good smoke, Ron in FL
To Oldarmy,
I was told by GM Barrel Company (phone call from their tech people) to use a .495 ball for hunting and a .500 ball for competition in their 50 Caliber barrels. They did not specify a patch thickness. Most of the competitive shooters I have talked to who use GM barrels (and most do) use a ball size that is the same as their barrel caliber and they use a .015 patch with patch lube.
My GM Barrel is on a new custom made rifle (Flintlock) and I have very little experience using this barrel. The .495 RB I have been using with a .015 Teflon patch does a nice job for me and is easy to seat and ram down the barrel. A friend of mine gave me about 20 .500 RB today and I am going to try them out in a few days.
Bottom line - I can't answer your question about other calibers - I do know most people have confirmed what GM Barrel Company told me on the phone - use a .500 for competition and a .495 for hunting. Don't have an answer on the patch thickness - maybe someone here can help out.
Bill
I was told by GM Barrel Company (phone call from their tech people) to use a .495 ball for hunting and a .500 ball for competition in their 50 Caliber barrels. They did not specify a patch thickness. Most of the competitive shooters I have talked to who use GM barrels (and most do) use a ball size that is the same as their barrel caliber and they use a .015 patch with patch lube.
My GM Barrel is on a new custom made rifle (Flintlock) and I have very little experience using this barrel. The .495 RB I have been using with a .015 Teflon patch does a nice job for me and is easy to seat and ram down the barrel. A friend of mine gave me about 20 .500 RB today and I am going to try them out in a few days.
Bottom line - I can't answer your question about other calibers - I do know most people have confirmed what GM Barrel Company told me on the phone - use a .500 for competition and a .495 for hunting. Don't have an answer on the patch thickness - maybe someone here can help out.
Bill
Thanks Stoat for the information on the patch size - I will be shooting at a match in Tennessee in a few weeks and will ask around to the experienced shooters what patch size they are using. I do know that one of the really good competition guys here uses a .500 RB in his GM Barrel and uses a pillow Tic material that is .015 thick with a lube. I have been using pillow ticking for a few months now and lube it with the receipt that "Stumpkiller" posted a while back. Really keeps the barrel clean and works well as a dry patch lube too!
Look here:[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/203261/[/url]
Bill
Look here:[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/203261/[/url]
Bill
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JOHN L. HINNANT
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Good Morning Oldarmy,
Yes, a .400"size ball would improve accuracy in a GM 40 caliber barrel.
In my GM 50 caliber barrel, I use 0.018" - 0.020" thick patch material. Both work equally well and give match grade accuracy.
If you will closely examined the muzzle of a GM barrel, it can be seen that that the rifling groves are considerable wider than the lands.
It has been my experience over the years that this type of rifling style will almost always produce the best accuracy with a bore size ball and is not that difficult to load with a tight patch/ball combination.
Some of my other barrels that have that type of widegrooves/narrow lands rifling also produce the best accuracy with bore size balls.
One barrel in particular, has very wide grooves and produces exceptional accuracy with a ball cast from a .500" size mold, that actually measures .5035" in diameter.
A new benchrest barrel is on the way and has been cut with very wide grooves. It is anticipated that the .5035" size ball will produce the best accuracy.
All of my older Douglas barrels produced the best accuracy with bore size balls. The old H&H barrels by Hoppy Hopkins had the wide groove groove/narrow lands style of rifling and had a decided preference for bore size balls.
All of this is right in line with what my shooting friends have experienced and still experience.
However, in the end ,as always, only experimenting with patch and ball combinations will determine what is best for any individual barrel.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
Politicians Lie!! US Freedoms Die!!!
Yes, a .400"size ball would improve accuracy in a GM 40 caliber barrel.
In my GM 50 caliber barrel, I use 0.018" - 0.020" thick patch material. Both work equally well and give match grade accuracy.
If you will closely examined the muzzle of a GM barrel, it can be seen that that the rifling groves are considerable wider than the lands.
It has been my experience over the years that this type of rifling style will almost always produce the best accuracy with a bore size ball and is not that difficult to load with a tight patch/ball combination.
Some of my other barrels that have that type of widegrooves/narrow lands rifling also produce the best accuracy with bore size balls.
One barrel in particular, has very wide grooves and produces exceptional accuracy with a ball cast from a .500" size mold, that actually measures .5035" in diameter.
A new benchrest barrel is on the way and has been cut with very wide grooves. It is anticipated that the .5035" size ball will produce the best accuracy.
All of my older Douglas barrels produced the best accuracy with bore size balls. The old H&H barrels by Hoppy Hopkins had the wide groove groove/narrow lands style of rifling and had a decided preference for bore size balls.
All of this is right in line with what my shooting friends have experienced and still experience.
However, in the end ,as always, only experimenting with patch and ball combinations will determine what is best for any individual barrel.
Best regards and good shooting,
John L. Hinnant
If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
Politicians Lie!! US Freedoms Die!!!
Went to the range yesterday to try out some .500 Caliber RB as promised above. First, I set up three targets at the 100 yard line - each target was a standard paper plate with a three inch square "Post it" note stapled in the center.
All loads for this test was 80 grains of fff black powder.
I fired five .495 RB and used .015 Teflon patches - this initial group of five was basically to warm up the rifle. The group generally hit within the ten inch diameter plate - no particular close group but, within the plate.
I fired a second group of five RB - .495 in size and the group was still within the plate and slightly tighter.
I then fired five .500 RB using the same .015 Teflon patch and the group was significantly tighter! In fact, four of the holes were in the three inch square "Post it" note. I changed targets and fired another group of five .500 RB and had the same tight group, most strikes were either in the three inch "Post it" note or just on the outer edge.
I then switched to a Teflon .020 patch and fired five shots. No difference in group size. The .020 Teflon patch was significantly harder to load and ram down. I fired a final group of five using the thicker patch - still the same group.
At this point, I figure the following to be the best combination for my 50 Caliber GM Barrel at 100 yards:
.500 RB
.015 Teflon patch (I do put some lube on it)
80 grains of fff black powder
Some may ask, "if .500 is recommended by Green Mountain Barrel to be the best ball size for competition, then why not use that size for all shooting?"
The answer I received was for hunting it is difficult to ram a .500 ball without tapping it with a hammer to short start it - not good when in the woods trying to stay quiet!
For me, I will begin using the .500 RB for all range activity - I don't hunt so why not use the .500 ball for all range shooting? Hey, anyone wanna buy 500 .495 RB? :grin:
Bill
All loads for this test was 80 grains of fff black powder.
I fired five .495 RB and used .015 Teflon patches - this initial group of five was basically to warm up the rifle. The group generally hit within the ten inch diameter plate - no particular close group but, within the plate.
I fired a second group of five RB - .495 in size and the group was still within the plate and slightly tighter.
I then fired five .500 RB using the same .015 Teflon patch and the group was significantly tighter! In fact, four of the holes were in the three inch square "Post it" note. I changed targets and fired another group of five .500 RB and had the same tight group, most strikes were either in the three inch "Post it" note or just on the outer edge.
I then switched to a Teflon .020 patch and fired five shots. No difference in group size. The .020 Teflon patch was significantly harder to load and ram down. I fired a final group of five using the thicker patch - still the same group.
At this point, I figure the following to be the best combination for my 50 Caliber GM Barrel at 100 yards:
.500 RB
.015 Teflon patch (I do put some lube on it)
80 grains of fff black powder
Some may ask, "if .500 is recommended by Green Mountain Barrel to be the best ball size for competition, then why not use that size for all shooting?"
The answer I received was for hunting it is difficult to ram a .500 ball without tapping it with a hammer to short start it - not good when in the woods trying to stay quiet!
For me, I will begin using the .500 RB for all range activity - I don't hunt so why not use the .500 ball for all range shooting? Hey, anyone wanna buy 500 .495 RB? :grin:
Bill
CrackStock
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Where does anyone find .500 ball? Is there even a mould available?
CS
CS
I have two sources of RB in the .500 size.
"Track of the Wolf" company sells .500 RB and molds. Their web page is:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(qofbmjzy2rw3zc45m5ymmd45))/Index.aspx[/url]
My main source and a source that I notice many others on this forum use is a fellow in Georgia who casts his own RB and sells them at a very competitive price. He uses USPS "Flat Rate" shipping which is $9.00 for up to 70 pounds. The point here is, buy at least 500 RB to reduce shipping cost per unit! I just ordered 500 .500 RB from him - cost of 500 balls is $32.00 and cost for shipping is $9.00! total cost for 500 RB and shipping is $41.00. He also casts and sells about any other size you might want!
Here is his information:
Eddie May
159 Ridley Road
Chatsworth, GA 30705
Telephone: 706-581-8225
I usually call him and tell him what I want then send a check via mail and he ships it out to you.
Hope this helps.
Bill
"Track of the Wolf" company sells .500 RB and molds. Their web page is:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(qofbmjzy2rw3zc45m5ymmd45))/Index.aspx[/url]
My main source and a source that I notice many others on this forum use is a fellow in Georgia who casts his own RB and sells them at a very competitive price. He uses USPS "Flat Rate" shipping which is $9.00 for up to 70 pounds. The point here is, buy at least 500 RB to reduce shipping cost per unit! I just ordered 500 .500 RB from him - cost of 500 balls is $32.00 and cost for shipping is $9.00! total cost for 500 RB and shipping is $41.00. He also casts and sells about any other size you might want!
Here is his information:
Eddie May
159 Ridley Road
Chatsworth, GA 30705
Telephone: 706-581-8225
I usually call him and tell him what I want then send a check via mail and he ships it out to you.
Hope this helps.
Bill
Last edited by a moderator:
Morning Folks,
Well, you guys have me convinced - 'bore size' is the way to go for target work! :thumbsup:
For years (30+) I've lived by the old method of shooting a .005 under bore size ball and I have gotten good results, but if bore size balls can pull that one shot in tight that gives you a better chance of finishing in the top three instead of the top five, I'm certainly going to give them a try! Good information!:hatsoff:
Well, you guys have me convinced - 'bore size' is the way to go for target work! :thumbsup:
For years (30+) I've lived by the old method of shooting a .005 under bore size ball and I have gotten good results, but if bore size balls can pull that one shot in tight that gives you a better chance of finishing in the top three instead of the top five, I'm certainly going to give them a try! Good information!:hatsoff:
Ohio Joe,
Just a note to clarify a few things. The thread here started discussing ball size for competition with Green Mountain barrels. I am way to new to be able to recommend anything when it comes to muzzleloading! I am not sure one can begin using bore size RB with every barrel. Others will have to comment on that. I just want to remind you and others that this discussion was primarily for Green Mountain barrels! I spoke with Green Mountain barrels on the phone and they told me the bore size ball was recommended due to their style of barrel - lands and grooves - I don't believe this is true of all barrels. Quite frankly, at 25 and 50 yards I have used three size balls with the same result - .490, .495, and .500. It is only when I started trying for a tight group at 100 yards that I found the .500 RB to provide consistent tighter groups!
If interested, here is a link to some pictures of the rifle I am using with a Green Mountain barrel. The rifle was made for me by a craftsman here in Alabama - Jim Parker. He calls this style the "Southern Virginia." The pictures include my 50 and 100 yard zero targets.
[url] http://bill-haycock.smugmug.com/gallery/3339005#186028139[/url]
Just a note to clarify a few things. The thread here started discussing ball size for competition with Green Mountain barrels. I am way to new to be able to recommend anything when it comes to muzzleloading! I am not sure one can begin using bore size RB with every barrel. Others will have to comment on that. I just want to remind you and others that this discussion was primarily for Green Mountain barrels! I spoke with Green Mountain barrels on the phone and they told me the bore size ball was recommended due to their style of barrel - lands and grooves - I don't believe this is true of all barrels. Quite frankly, at 25 and 50 yards I have used three size balls with the same result - .490, .495, and .500. It is only when I started trying for a tight group at 100 yards that I found the .500 RB to provide consistent tighter groups!
If interested, here is a link to some pictures of the rifle I am using with a Green Mountain barrel. The rifle was made for me by a craftsman here in Alabama - Jim Parker. He calls this style the "Southern Virginia." The pictures include my 50 and 100 yard zero targets.
[url] http://bill-haycock.smugmug.com/gallery/3339005#186028139[/url]
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Aside from one Ed Rayl barrel, and one Douglas Barrel, Green Mountain Barrels are all I use these days. Thanks for bringing this up however. Other's may not have been aware of this. :thumbsup:
It seems to that all the top shooters have agreed on this point of the usage of bore size balls for target work.
If by some chance they did not work for me, I would just melt them down and recast them .005 smaller for usage.
:hatsoff:
It seems to that all the top shooters have agreed on this point of the usage of bore size balls for target work.
If by some chance they did not work for me, I would just melt them down and recast them .005 smaller for usage.
:hatsoff:
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