well,shot some more today and the grouping seems to be a little better.I am using a lube of bees wax and beef tallow.swab between every shot with an alchohol and oil soap based bore wipe.I believe there may be some truth in old eyes,heavy guns, tired arms??I shot 3 shots in a straight line from 9'0clock ,dead center and one at 3o'clock,2.5 in. group. 4th shot went 2o'clock - 7-8 ring!will try and vise shoot and see what that tells me.will keep working on it, eventually will solve it!thanks for all the tips!