group tightner???

[rickC]

Can anyone give me some edgamcation??I have a .40 percussion rifle that shoots better than my eye can hold,sounds familiar?I get a group of 2 in. offhand but the shots "string" from 10 ring out toward 1 o'clock??? always up and right.I wear tri focals and thought maybe the "sweet" spot on the lens is causing my problem???patches look good,ignition is good,using a patch lube of beeswax and grease with pillow tickin'What would tighten the group? what am I missing or not doing right?thanks! :hmm:

 

[RJR]

Sounds like anticipating the recoil.

 

[walruskid1]

25 or 50 yds?

 

[bpollock_sr]

group tightner ? We drink that stuff at ronyvoos. Son if your into that your lucky to even find your rifle......now for your question your shots stringing could be the effects of fouling caused by consecutive shots without wipeing the bore or the barrel warming up as you shoot your string .

 

[Spring]

I found my choice of target made quite a difference. Using the regular 100 yard sight-in target with the 6" black ring yielded 4" groups (4MOA).

I found a woodchuck target with a 2" black ring yielded 2" groups (2MOA). I found the shape of the standing chuck together with a fine aiming point made the difference when trying to do precise work.

With the 6" black it is just too difficult to aim at precisely the same point.


Cheers!

 

[rickC]

I'm shooting at 25-30 yds.scrubbed the rifle and even used 3m fibre to scour it real good!!almost lapped it!wirebrushed it.just want to figure how to get the group in a little closer and keep it tight!!there will always be flyers but if you do things consistent you should have consistent results?? yeah right???lol!bore looks good see no fouling or snags, I have a drum and nipple ignition could it be an ignition thing?I checked the depth of the drum into the chamber,it seems right?checked patches no holes.It might be a anticipating the shot reflex?? I will check that out tommorrow. :hmm: eace:

 

[cavscout]

hopefully this helps, but i taught marksmanship for basic training solders for about 2 yrs at fort knox. after reading you post i remember that type of pattern beind in the marksmanship manual. i have not read the new one but it should be in it. here is the link to one copy that you can read online. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/
just find the part about grouping of shots, i'm not saying this is your problem or is it a load problem. i just remembered that being a common thing in the FM. if you can't find it let me know.. hope this helps,,,joe

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I would try to bench rest or sight-vise the thing to see if it is the gun or you. Even if I use a rest I will vertically string with some of my guns. I am not sure if that is fouling or me because this is at ranges over 80yds. I have a cheap plastic "sightvise" that I use to sight in rifles because it holds them pretty tight. I also use it to sight in modern rifles that I bore sight. The vise does make the groups smaller so I am the cause of most bad shots. I think...

You know it is you when vised the gun shoots MOA, without, a bigger group.

I am getting better shooting though so West beware.

 

[Rebel]

Ya might wanna try some Preperation H as patch lube. That should Shrink them groups for ya. ::

 

[[email protected]]

One thang ya gotta do is git rid of that wire brush.....
that aint helpin ya a bit...
shoot at a triangle printed upside down on a sheet of paper. AIM at the bottom point on the triangle.
Then give us another report.....I bet yer shootin will improve.....


**** WV SCROUNGER *** :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Use less lube, or a different lube/mix. Some grease & wax lubes cause stringing as the bore packs up. You can either swab with alcohol or use less.

What kind of "grease" are you using. Petroleum based lubes can cause a tar to build up as they are roasted from the firings.

 

[Joel Lehman]

Does group tightener work any better than aiming fluid?

 

[Bucko]

What I would do is bench the rifle with sandbags. See where it shoots. See if it groups. Don't worry about where it groups and don't try to correct anything. The main thing is to see if its the rifle or you. If it still strings then it might be any of the above mentioned things. If not then its you. The most important thing is " the name of the game is the same". In other words don't shoot one shot and then adjust or change something to make it shoot where you want. You are trying to see if it groups and you can't do that unless each shot is the same as the one before it. Once you determine the rifle will group, or not, then you can fine tune it to where you want it.
I've been shooting muzzleloaders for 30+ years and have rifles that I shoot real poorly offhand, but are tack drivers off of a sandbag. Old eyes, tired arms and heavy guns.

 

[TFoley]

Wire brush is a sure-fire bore-killer, leave off using it unless cleaning out a 150 year-old gun you are not that concerned about.

tac :grey:

 

[roundball]

Wire brush is a sure-fire bore-killer, leave off using it unless cleaning out a 150 year-old gun you are not that concerned about.

tac :grey:

Never heard that...been using a bronze bore brush as part of my routine cleaning procedure for a lot for years now...a bronze bristle brush is softer than the steel bore, etc...can you elaborate?

 

Another idea would be to experiment with the barrel-wedge(s)/pins.

With modern rifles, horizontal or vertical strings are caused by the barrel-bedding which causes the tube to swing in a certain direction. :m2c:

 

[TFoley]

For many years over here in UK we used to use wire brushes on bores VERY sparingly, if at all, especially in the military. Well, over the last 38 years of MY own experience. Even when we did, it was used on bores where you can push the brush ALL the way through in one direction - just ONCE. On a muzzle loader, you will be reversing the brush at some point, and the stress put on the brush as it changes direction is thought not to be good for the rather softer steel bore of BP weapons.
In my little club of around 175 shooters, many of them very fine target rifle shots of great ability [excluding me, it goes without saying], nobody would think of using a wire brush in a bore, especially if you want to retain accuracy - that is, if you have accuracy to start with. In fact, using a wire brush on a newer target rifle bore is almost certain to cause damage, according to the makers, like Norman Clark of Rugby. And here in UK we do have some very fine barrel makers, as well as target rifle builders, like our pal Norman.

But hey, we certainly are waaaaaaay behind you guys when it comes to making BP rifles, and perhaps they actually DO need a ferocious scrubbing with a phosphor bronze brush, treating the beautiful bore of your rifle to the pressure of around 300 tons per square inch on each bristle end that reversing a PB brush does. What do WE know, eh?

All I know is, PB brushes reversing in MY BP rifle bores just ain't going to happen, but that must not stop you from carrying on as you are used to. :m2c:

tac :grey:

 

[BS]

Use less lube, or a different lube/mix. Some grease & wax lubes cause stringing as the bore packs up. You can either swab with alcohol or use less.

What kind of "grease" are you using. Petroleum based lubes can cause a tar to build up as they are roasted from the firings.

Also, what are you doing between shots? Spit patch, dry wipes or just shooting dirty? [this can also make a difference], just like too much lube will cause flyers, less is best!

 

[gordy]

As was said by others here,there are several mechanical items that "could" cause the stringing.As long as Your loading the same for every shot,same patch,powder charge'and Your projectiles are uniform (within 1grn wgt.)and no air pockets,the same amount of lube.I'd have to guess that the problem lies with the fact of your hold and /or sight picture.The fact that the string always moves up and to the right would indicate this.If the bore were cruding the later shots might tend to be lower.Without benching the gun theres no way to determine the exact cause. :hmm:

 

[Pittsburghunter]

In my opinion vertical stringing can be caused by fouling in the rifle. I am no expert I have shot only about 4000-5000 rounds out of muzzleloaders compared to some who shoot that much out of one rifle a year.

I have a couple of rifles that when shot without cleaning between shots the rifle shoots a bit higher on the next shot. I believe this is caused by extra pressure by the fouling. I may be wrong but I reconize with these rifles I need to clean between shots and it is no big deal to me.

A couple of days before the inline forum was abolished I posted a picture of this happening with my Scout Carbine although the spread was small it is still interesting to note that this happens. The Scout is a true MOA gun and the difference between clean or not while the deer don't care, If you are shooting for points it does matter.

Any tight bore gets even tighter when fouled that means more pressure almost like you added more powder.