Guidance on "Traditional Production Flintlock"

[keethb]

I figure that this post will more than likely open me up to all kinds of direct and indirect fire, but I figure that it is worth the risk to gain some insight on this topic. I've decided that I would really like to get a "traditional" flintlock muzzleloader, and require some sage advice before I start my quest to acquire this new smokepole. I need to start with a few qualifiers. Custom flintlocks are out of the question as I am an N-SSA skirmisher and am unwilling to part with my collection of Civil War reproduction and original percussion cap weapons in order to finance a custom flintlock. Kits are not feasible as my wood working skills quite frankly are miserable. What can I say--I am willing to shoot a great weapon, but don't have the wood working skills to build one. So, my goal is to get as much traditional production flintlock for my money as possible. I plan to use this weapon as a learning tool to better understand flintlock weapons; to serve as a weekend diversion alongside my CW percussion muskets, carbines, and revolvers; my inline T/C Omega; and to punch large holes in deserving deer and elk that are foolish enough to stray into my path during hunting season. After lurking this forum, and conducting research on my own, I believe that the decision falls among the following .54 caliber flintlock rifled weapons; Lyman GPR, Lyman Trade Rifle, T/C Hawken, and the Cabelas/Pedersoli Blue Ridge. If I should consider another candidate weapon, please let me know. I like the great value and fast handling of the Lyman Trade Rifle, appreciate the guarantee and quality construction of the T/C Hawken, admire the shooting and aesthetic qualities of the Lyman GPR, and love the way that the Blue Ridge looks. The weapon that I pick should shoot reliably and accurately. What do you think? What do you recommend? Let me know what you think and I'll utilize your knowledge to arrive at the best decision. Thanks for your time.

Best Regards,

Sky-Dogg

 

[Rat]

I think you should re-evaluate whether you can afford a custom, which may be more cost-effective over the long run, and will result in a better functioning rifle right "out of the gate".

There are good rifle makers that can make you a rifle for around $1200, that's only about twice the price of two good production rifles...maybe a bit more. Sometimes you can get the kit you want from TOW, and have a maker put it together for you for around $400 or so, which will come in under $1200 when done.

Many of these makers will take payments while the rifle is being built. If you have a job, it's not out of the question.

My last thought, and I don't know if this could be done or not, is maybe it's possible to get a Lyman GPR kit, for instance, and then have a rifle maker put a Chamber's lock on it, and properly position the vent/install a white lighting vent...that would be WAY cheaper than a custom rifle, but would function just like one. Again, I don't know if there is a lock that would be a good fit, that was a little bigger than the GPR lock, which would allow the lock inlet to be opened up enough to do that. ??? Or is this in the realm of mad-science??

::

Well that wasn't the info you wanted, but just thought I'd throw that out anyhow...custom rifles are GREAT values, the satisfaction is priceless, and sometimes people are too quick to say: "I can't afford one", when the could if they just did some serious saving, made payments, etc.

But no, don't sell any of your guns to get one.

Rat

 

[Stumpkiller]

Can you wax a car? If you have the motor skills to do that you can finish off an "in the white" semi-custom gun and have a real step-up from an assembly line rifle.

http://www.earlyrusticarms.com/

The $600 Cumberland or $650 Bucks County in-the-white rifles from Larry seem to be a good value.

You just have to get a bottle of browning solution and decide on a stock finish you like.

 

[Rat]

Here's another idea...does it have to be a rifle? Semi-custom, in the white smoothbore kits which take very little building skill are quite afordable. I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess kit gun that I am 100% happy with. And I am a total flop when it comes to rifle/gun building.

Anyhow, with all yer CW rifled arms you might enjoy a smoothbore. With ball it can still be used on big game up to 50-70 yards, plus it's as good on birds and wabbits as any other shotgun, ML or modern. I would suggest some kind of musket, as those locks are nice and big and quite reliable. Of course a fowler with a Chambers or Davis lock is going to be "right" also. As muskets are copies of tried and true locks, the geometry is right and you won't run into weird problems like the cocks being too short, pan hitting the flint on half cock, and things like that you might find on some of the flintlock rifles that are not exact replicas of antique rifles.

Just another off-track thought.

Rat

 

[vradin]

Here's another idea...does it have to be a rifle?

Ok- so I'm in a different part of the same stream as the OP... looking for a first flinter, gotta be a kit as there's NO budget for production gun, much less some custom-made thing from a smith. Besides, as little as I can shoot around here, making one is the next best thing to shooting one.

Now Mr Rat comes along with this radical idea of a smoothbore and gives me something new to consider, thanks. Please keep in mind I'm still a beginner to all this, and know nearly nothing about the workings of flintlocks.

So, for the 64 cent question (told ya I was on a budget)... For use with PRB and shot, mostly target, some skeet, maybe if circumstances change some turkey or deer hunting. What caliber or is it bore size? Barrel length? Style for 1850's midwest or thereabouts? Inexpensive source of kits or buy parts bit at a time?

This is all so confusing and much too addictive.

And another thing... does this mean I need to start reading the 'Smoothbore forum' now???? I can barely get thru all the posts and forums now ::

vic

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Lots of folks will say that none of the rifles you've listed are "traditional" as they are not an exact copy of any old rifle these experts know about. But they all are popular for their own reasons.
The Lyman Trade Rifle is bargin priced, more bang for the buck than any other of which I know.
The Blue Ridge or Pedersoli Frontier rifles, if not an exact copy of any old rifle does, none the less, look like it COULD be an old rifle.
Dixie Gun Works Tennessee Mountain Rifle is another you might want to consider.
Any of those mentioned will shoot just fine. Those with a 48" twist may handle conicals for hunting and ball for plinking, thus being a bit more versatile.
And lastly, I'd second those who've said "don't exclude the custom guns". You can get a plain rifle with all first class parts and workmanship for under $1000, perhaps under $800, though it likely will involve some waiting, which gives time to save up the bucks. :imo:

 

[keethb]

Thanks for the recommendations. Here is where I am at right now based upon the posted and PMed responses. All of you have offered up great advice and information. The semi-custom flintlock option, either finished or "in the white," is a value at $650-$750 with some options when you consider that it comes with a Green Mountain barrel and an L&R lock. Turn around time according to the proprietor of Early Rustic Arms, the establishment mentioned by Stumpkiller, is 6-8 months for an in the white weapon, and 10-12 months for a completed one. I assume that it is close to the same for similar companies. So, good things come to those who wait. The best solution is a blended one. I can buy a Lyman Trade Rifle right now. Good value, Cayugad endorsed, shoots well, looks pretty good, and gives me something to shoot and learn from while my semi-custom flintlock (completed or in the white) is being put together over the next 8-12 months. Money was not the driving force for me in this post or decision. Getting the right information to make an informed and educated purchase was. Often the greatest challenge in life is that, "you don't know what you don't know."

All information and assistance will continue to be gratefully accepted and used.

Best Regards,

Sky-Dogg

 

[Stumpkiller]

The GPR is not a bad choice at all.

I don't know why we didn't see more from the T/C Pennsylvania Hunter. It was the perfect first choice flinter: accurate, rugged, round ball (1:66) twist and relatively inexpensive. Made a great back-up as a hunt saver if you did go on to a custom. Didn't actually copy any "historic" design, but that is secondary to function.

 

[Tahquamenon]

I just recently snagged a NIB T/C Hawken 50 for less than they go for used. If you shop and scrounge the deals are out there. A nice used T/C would also serve well.

As far as quality, warranty for life, service and support, T/C rifles are about as good as you will ever find. You are not likely going to find that in a custom and certainly not if you go with a kit.

:m2c:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

DANG Stumpkiller, at first glance I thought Daryl was back. Kinda miss him, leaves me as the only grouchy, hard-headed old fart.
anyhow, :agree:
with your suggestion of the T/C Penn. hunter except T/C no longer lists it. I got mine about 1/2 price on closeout. Wish I could have gotten one of the earlier ones with half round barrel and steel butt. Mine is the full octy with a recoil pad which I have to hide under a leather wrap.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

 

[Finnwolf]

Just so you get both sides of the coin, I've owned 2 T/C's and maybe I've just been unlucky, but I would not recommend T/C to anyone. A buddy has a GPR and it's always a toss up whether or not it will go off. I know he's not recommending it around. We've both been shooting flinters here in PA for better than 25 years, so we're not making newbie mistakes.

I think these guns now sell for close to $400. For that price, my advice is to save a little longer and get that $650 semi-custom. You won't regret it. If you do go the T/C or Lyman route, get an experienced hand to give it a tune up so it goes off when you want it to.
Finnwolf